Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Open Letter: The issues with client-side-window-decorations

[Sam Spilsbury <smspillaz@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Mark Shuttleworth <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 09/06/10 18:02, Martin Gräßlin wrote:
>> Please tell me you are joking. After all the arguments I presented you still
>> think CSD is the road to go? You completely ignore my arguments, you actually
>> have not even read my arguments or you would know that some things like
>> closing hung windows or aligning window buttons are impossible.
>>
>> All I wanted was to start a discussion about what is missing in decorations.
>> It's not me who wants to keep window decorations, it's you who want to replace
>> something working with a broken concept. And you should at least be able to
>> present one valid use case what can only be achieved with CSD. So far you only
>> proofed that you have no idea what's possible with window decorations. This
>> mail is quite a slap into my face and an insult. I really hope this is not the
>> attitude Ubuntu stands for today. I thought it was about "humanity".
>>
>> I wanted to offer my help. I saw that you are heading in the wrong direction
>> based on the missinformation that you cannot achieve certain theming options
>> with window decorations. As I presented several times in this thread all you
>> want is possible right now in kwin. Apparently you did not even take the time
>> to look through the mails on the wm-spec mailing list or my blog posts of the
>> last half year.
>>
>> I'm totally shocked. I hope for the future of Ubuntu that you will learn that
>> you cannot ignore your Upstreams. And you can be sure that I won't spent one
>> minute on fixing any issue caused by CSD in kwin. Bug reports will be set to
>> invalid and I will enforce window decorations on CSD windows, if it is
>> necessary. It would be unacceptable that windows cannot be closed if they
>> hung.
>>
>> I wish you all the best, but I feel like wasting my time in this discussion.
>> Go your way, destroy the user experience we used to have.
>>
>
> Martin, calm down.
>
> Based on your correspondence I earlier asked the Canonical team to
> review the idea and make sure it's something we want to do. Folks are
> keen to do the right thing, and nobody wants to take a step that we will
> regret later if it can be avoided by careful assessment now. It will
> take a little time to caucus folks across the Ubuntu and design and DX
> teams, and then we'll make a decision. I appreciate the effort you have
> put into helping us with that, and we'll probably have more questions later.
>
> Assuming that people are muppets just because they have a different
> opinion is just... rude. Your mail above says "I will be very hard to
> collaborate with", nothing more or less. You might want to relax a little.
>
> I don't think that the relationship between the window manager and the
> user is sacrosanct. It's what we have today, but it's not the only way
> of doing things. I know that's heresy when spoken to an author of window
> managers, but that's how I feel about it. My interest is in moving
> things towards the best possible user experience, period. And if CSD is
> needed for that, we'll do it. If it isn't, we don't want to put work
> into something just because it's shiny.
>

I think Martin and I already justified to you how using CSD is going
to make the user experience worse by breaking-by-design existing
technology which is already used to ensure consistency in the user
interface.

Kind Regards,

Sam

> Mark
>
>



-- 
Sam Spilsbury