algeriatul team mailing list archive

[Setve Gentilly <1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

You know Windows works on more systems than Ubuntu, did you know
that......

I am a senior technician for windows systems with many certifications, and
they warned me about your type........

Maybe Windows is the best system...............

I will wait another 2 or 3 years to see if Ubuntu is worthy of my
attention.

Gentilli.



On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:47 AM, Martin Wildam <1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 20:37, Randall Ross (rrnwexec)
> <randall@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Did you bother to check which systems are certified first?
> > http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/
> >
> > Think of your experiences in the Windows world. You likely have used
> > hardware that is stickered "Windows Ready", "Works with Windows" etc.
> >
> > The Ubuntu world is no different, and Ubuntu does NOT work on
> > everything. Please reset expectations accordingly.
>
> Although Ubuntu runs on a lot of hardware that is not listed there and
> no certification has been done, people should simply prefer the
> hardware that is certified or at least known to work.
>
> Simply becauce: Manufacturer's first aim is to work with Windows
> because that is the majority of people and this simply is what gets
> preinstalled in the vast majority of cases when shipping the thingy.
>
> Some manufacturers have looked beond the the rim of the plate and see
> that the world around M$ is wide and large and take this into
> consideration, like Dell or Lenovo for example.
>
> If people buying stuff do not explicitely prefer the more compatible
> hardware manufacturers also will not change their habits.
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 20:59, Tom <1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > So 30mins to install Ubuntu against 1hr30 to install Windows.
> >
> > Did the Windows system then need upgrades or additional software?  After
> the
> > first round of updates and reboot  were all the drivers, codecs and new
> programs
> > all up-to-date and fully patched?
>
> Yesterday I tried to install an MS Office plugin from M$. Result: Half
> an hour of applying necessary updates including upgrading to IE8 (and
> I have no plain idea why IE8 needed in that case)... - and the machine
> had applied all updates before...
>
>
> > Installing a system you know well (Windows), with the standard
> preparation you
> > do before an install to that particular set of hardware does not really
> compare
> > against installing a system you have no experience with and have not
> prepared
> > for in advance.
>
> Yeah, people used Windows many, many years and then they expect to do
> the transition in a day. Although I think that Ubuntu can be learned
> quite quickly (just to think of the plenty of forums and documentation
> available - or the very helpful community), my experience is that a
> standard low experienced home user needs approx 2 weeks to get
> familiar enough to be productive - but this is an awesome short time!
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 21:14, houstonbofh <1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > I have expertise in both Windows and Linux.  Windows takes longer.
> > Mainly it is the massive amount of reboots between updates and drivers.
> >  Also, the install is far to interactive, not set it and forget it.
>
> If you look at the installation of Windows 2008 R2 Server for example,
> installation of Windows is really not very interactive - it neither
> asks for a host name! - It generates an automatic one that you can
> change later. So even less interaction than for an Ubuntu
> installation.
>
> That said, afterwards plenty of clicks needed to get only in the near
> of being productive - not to tell that Windows OS after installation
> is naked as a jaybird! Even the text editor that comes with it is ...
> - well the only word I have for it is "impertinence".
>
>
> > As
> > an aside, the only programming language I know is Perl, and I haven't
> > really used in in years.
>
> When I started with Linux all programming languages I knew were
> Windows-only. So really, there is no need to know a programming
> language for using Linux. That I felt strange using an OS I can't
> program is natural after having always been capable of programming the
> PCs I was working on before. - Well, I have fixed that bug in the
> meantime. ;-)
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 21:14, houstonbofh <1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > You want Ubuntu to be as easy for a beginner to install with no
> > experience as Windows is for an expert with years of experience.  That
> > is the bug...  Unreasonable expectations.  And the thought that
> > "Windows" is "Computer" and if you know "Windows" you know "computers."
> >  Not so helpfull with Mac, Linux, HP-UX, Aix, Solaris, AS400, VMS, or a
> > number of accounting specific systems.  Now if you give the same test to
> > your grandmother, I bet Linux is easier.
>
> Full ACK!
>
> But: I agree that anyway it must get better, because there are plenty
> of people who care a sh* about the OS - their focus is completely
> different and they don't want to bother.
>
> But, that said, those people must be illuminated that: Even if they
> want to just pull coffee from the coffee machine or if they "just"
> want to drive a car, some knowledge of the thing you are using is
> needed to use it (efficiently). In general for every thing (be it
> technical or non-technical) there are some basics (knowledge,
> experience, training) needed to use something - and more knowledge,
> experience and training is needed to use something really efficient -
> or - to help yourself in case of a problem. - This applies for
> computers as well as for cars, giving presentations or even just your
> daily habits.
>
> And then, when people want to improve their efficiency, then it comes
> to the very special strength of Linux: There are plenty of different
> desktop environments or just window managers, plenty of look and
> feels, desktop elements like Docky (and the like - plenty of options
> available just there), look & feel, different options for writing
> office documents and and and... - According to your needs and focus!
> Remind
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Habits_of_Highly_Effective_People
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 22:25, Setve Gentilly <1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > Well it still comes down to not having drivers for stuff.
>
> Yes.
>
>
> > Thank you guys for your time, but when Ubuntu is more compatible I will
> have
> > another look at it.
>
> No, you missed the point: The hardware manufacturers sold the thingy
> to you. If you need to use Windows on that thingy because you can't
> use Linux - they don't care! - They only will care when nobody is
> buying their stuff because it is not Linux compatible! So YOU NEED TO
> CHANGE FIRST! Don't buy that crappy hardware!
>
> I tell everybody asking me for consulting which hardware to buy that
> they should look for a Linux compatible hardware, even if they don't
> plan to use Linux (now). Situation could be different in a year, so
> they should not lock themselves out from trying something new later. -
> Guess what: The last time I said that resulted in 2 weeks later
> switching to Ubuntu after the user destroyed the Windows 7 preinstall
> within a week.
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 22:41, »John« <1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > I don't mean to be rude; I just want the message to be perfectly clear
> > because we've been through this shit for like million times already and
> > I'm simply getting sick and tired of hearing the same stupid whining
> > over and over again. Bad hardware support is always caused by stupid
> > hardware manufacturers and not the operating system in question, because
> > someone needs to write the damn drivers!
>
> You nailed it!
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 00:10, Randall Ross (rrnwexec)
> <randall@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > We should instead be aiming to teach people to be creators and
> > contributors, so their information access tools remain robust and enable
> > any one to get to any and all information they need to educate
> > themselves.
>
> For the very interested user, yes - but many just have different
> focus. E.g. a non-technical book author just wants to write his books
> and do conversation with readers and publishers and typically does not
> want bother with the OS. So most people are not going to read a bulk
> of documentation. Of course, for the interested user who wants to get
> more out of his/her PC, documentation should be at hand quickly and
> easy to understand.
>
> --
> Martin Wildam
>
> http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam
>
> --
> Microsoft has a majority market share
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1
> You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
> of the bug.
>
> Status in Club Distro: Confirmed
> Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid
> Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid
> Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix
> Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid
> Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid
> Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress
> Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress
> Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress
> Status in Tabuntu: Invalid
> Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid
> Status in Tv-Player: New
> Status in Ubuntu: In Progress
> Status in “ubuntu-express” package in Ubuntu: Invalid
> Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid
> Status in “ubuntu-express” source package in Jaunty: Invalid
> Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid
> Status in “linux” package in Debian: In Progress
> Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed
> Status in openSUSE: In Progress
> Status in Tilix Linux: New
>
> Bug description:
> Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace.
> This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix.
>
> Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry,
> restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and
> limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential,
> globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry.
>
> Steps to repeat:
>
> 1. Visit a local PC store.
>
> What happens:
> 2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software
> pre-installed.
> 3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed.
>
> What should happen:
> 1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like
> Ubuntu.
> 2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and
> benefits would be apparent and known by all.
> 3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscribe
>
>

-- 
Microsoft has a majority market share
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu 4
dz, which is a direct subscriber.

Status in Club Distro: Confirmed
Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Invalid
Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid
Status in GNOME Screensaver: Won't Fix
Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid
Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid
Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress
Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress
Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress
Status in Tabuntu: Invalid
Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid
Status in Tv-Player: New
Status in Ubuntu: In Progress
Status in “ubuntu-express” package in Ubuntu: Invalid
Status in The Jaunty Jackalope: Invalid
Status in “ubuntu-express” source package in Jaunty: Invalid
Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid
Status in “linux” package in Debian: In Progress
Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed
Status in openSUSE: In Progress
Status in Tilix Linux: New

Bug description:
Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace.
This is a bug, which Ubuntu is designed to fix.

Non-free software is holding back innovation in the IT industry, restricting access to IT to a small part of the world's population and limiting the ability of software developers to reach their full potential, globally. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry.

Steps to repeat:

1. Visit a local PC store.

What happens:
2. Observe that a majority of PCs for sale have non-free software pre-installed.
3. Observe very few PCs with Ubuntu and free software pre-installed.

What should happen:
1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like Ubuntu.
2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and benefits would be apparent and known by all.
3. The system shall become more and more user friendly as time passes.