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[Charles <tanstaafl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

(In reply to Blake Winton [On vacation until Jan 9th] (:bwinton - Thunderbird UX) from comment #144)
> (In reply to Charles from comment #136)
> Our user-testing has shown that people have problems with the two search
> bars, and trying to figure out which one to use for what kind of searches. 
> Merging them into a single bar that sometimes does what you want and
> sometimes doesn't doesn't seem to me to be a good way to resolve that issue,
> and I think we can do better than that.

One option then would be to make it an either/or option - meaning, you
can't have both, and I certainly have no problem with making the Quick
Filter Toolbar the default one that is enabled, but allow the user to
choice to *switch* to the Widget (movable/standalone searchbox that this
extension provides), and pop-up a little warning explaining the
difference between the two search options (Toolbar, or Widget) to the
user when they change the option so it is clear what they are doing, and
that enabling the widget would disable the Toolbar.

That way there is no possibility for confusion.

> That was another key combo didn't work out.  (I'm also not particularly
> happy with the current set of key combos, but if we ever manage to merge the
> QFB and Gloda bars, we can just use Ctrl-K, which is better, I think.)

Well, since I do not use GLODA for reasons already explained (it is
absolutely *horrible* when used with very large IMAP stores), I
certainly hope you aren't suggesting that GLODA will be something else
I'll be *forced* to use at some point in the future...

> I'm not trying to bash the add-on (and said so to Iago in email), I'm just
> trying to point out things that I would want to see improved/fixed before
> landing something like this in Thunderbird.

Ok, and your hard work is much appreciated, even though sometimes it may
not come out that way...

I had a few exchanges with Iago about simplifying the Widget, so
hopefully I'll be able to post back here to try the new version soon and
maybe some of your concerns will be addressed.

> Well, it wasn't my decision, so I'm not particularly offended.  (But I'm
> also not convinced that only ever adding things, and never taking things
> away is a path that will lead to good software.)

Definitely me neither... but this is not one of those times. I
absolutely love this addon, and can't imagine Thunderbird without it.

>> Ok, Blake, no offense, but you simply cannot be serious. It *does* make it
>> more 'minimal', in the sense that it takes up less *space* *and* allows the
>> user the freedom to put the searchbox wherever they want and be able to
>> filter messages without having another huge toolbar taking up more precious
>> screen real estate, which is *the* *whole* *point*.

> I see that you and I are talking about two completely different things.
> 
> I don't care how much space we take up, if we get an easier to use program.

Sorry, again, no offense, but that comment just screams 'I know nothing
about *good* UI design."

> You seem to not care how easy something is to use, as long as it takes up as
> little space as possible.

Well, I see essentially *zero* difference in 'ease of use' between the
Toolbar and the Widget, beyond a 5 minute learning curve of:

"I installed the extension, so where is my old searchboix? Oh, I have to
manually add it to a toolbar. There it is... now, how do I use it? Oh, I
simply click into the searchbox, and the filter options magically
appear."

How is that harder (aside from having to add it to a toolbar) than
trying to figure out how to get the Toolbar to appear and disappear
reliably?

> (Or, put another way, I want something that's conceptually minimal, whereas
> I think you want something that's physically minimal.  Does that sound
> right?)

Maybe, but I prefer *both*, actually... ;)

>> I (and there are lots more like me) *don't* *like* the QFB, precisely
>> because it is a *toolbar*. It was the *reason* I opened this bug, and the
>> *reason* that Iago coded the Unified Search Addon

> This wasn't clear to me from the title or the comments I read.

Read the first two sentences in my opening comment...

>> Then you must have never bothered to read the opening comment. Too bad,
>> because the loss of the movable search box was a huge blow for many, many
>> people.

> Perhaps it was, but I haven't heard that many people complaining about it. 
> (Maybe because Iago's add-on is satisfying their needs?)

Well there was a lot of noise on mozillazine and other sites when this
happened, but it was a long time ago (3.1 I believe), so sure, the noise
has died down because people either found the addon, or modified their
behavior, but I also distinctly recall a lot of people saying they
switched email clients (it was like a 'last straw' kind of thing).

> I understand that not everyone likes changes we make, but I still haven't
> been convinced that the benefit of this would outweigh the cost.

Well, in contrast, I honestly don't see the 'cost' in providing users
the *option*.

>> Change for change's sake is not always for the best, and killing off the
>> simple/movable message searchbox filter was a *mistake*, in mine and many
>> others' opinions.

> It may or may not have been.  The toolbar certainly seem easier to
> understand than having a textbox with some extra dropdown options.

The panel drops down when needed (when the user clicks into the
searchbox or a search term is active).

> I hear that you dislike the amount of space it takes up, but if you're happy
> with Iago's add-on, then I don't really understand why you're pushing to get it
> merged into core…

Because ianap, and if Iago decides he has better things to do with his
time, it could easily die a horrible death, but if it is in the core
code, it wouldn't.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of making this an
either/or option that is off by default. I really don't see how that
wouldn't satisfy your objections about confusion, and I honestly can't
think of any other reason *not* to provide users the choice of the
Toolbar or the Widget.

Anyway, at least thanks very much for taking the time to respond and
make your case.

-- 
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Desktop
Packages, which is subscribed to thunderbird in Ubuntu.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/691380

Title:
  Quick Search  Filter should be moveable

Status in Mozilla Thunderbird Mail and News:
  Confirmed
Status in “thunderbird” package in Ubuntu:
  Triaged
Status in “thunderbird” source package in Lucid:
  Triaged

Bug description:
  Binary package hint: thunderbird

  Today I updated lucid 3.0.4 TB to 3.1.7 from security.  I never liked
  the new "smart" search feature but relied mostly on filtering on To,
  CC and recipient.  I had put the search field for that on the menu bar
  so no further screen real estate was used on my netbook.  3.1.7 now
  introduces a UI regression in that that search field is used solely
  for the dumb "smart" search that opens a tab to waste even more screen
  space.  To use the search that I care about I have to use the quick
  search bar, more lost screen space.  And when I actually use it it
  opens another bar to filter and by then I can't even see my messages
  any longer.

  Seriously, netbooks are here to stay.  What were the UI devs thinking
  looking at their 28" TFT display all day?

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