dhis2-devs-core team mailing list archive

[Morten Olav Hansen <morten@xxxxxxxxx>]

Thanks for the writeup Jason, I don't have any particular strong feelings
about i18next vs format-js (as I don't really know much about them). I do
know that format-js is part of a ECMA standard [1], but maybe that is also
true for i18next.

Starting with a small app like cache cleaner sounds like a good idea, it
could even be implemented using 2-3 different frameworks to learn about
pros and cons.

[1] http://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-402/1.0/

-- 
Morten Olav Hansen
Senior Engineer, DHIS 2
University of Oslo
http://www.dhis2.org

On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Jim Grace <jim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Thanks for the background, Jason. That's very helpful.
> On May 14, 2016 7:08 AM, "Jason Pickering" <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Morten,
>> Thanks for your comments. I realize everyone is busy. This is an attempt
>> to make us less busy though, by simplifying and improving the translation
>> workflow. As you have probably seen even recently on the list, there are
>> issues with translations in the apps (beyond the lack of actually having
>> the translations themselves). If we are going to support i18n, then we
>> should probably try and do it right.
>>
>> Anyway, for the other two frameworks, I think Mark would be best
>> positioned to comment on them, but one of the reasons why i18next looked
>> good was because of the other tools which surround it. Devs are not going
>> to write the translations, so we need to be able to get the translations
>> out of the apps and into something which translators can work with,
>> preferably not JS/Java source code. Property files work OK, but have issues
>> (duplicates and plurals being two I can think of). PO (gettext) files seem
>> to work very well with many different translation tools mentioned in the
>> document. That is really why Mark and I thought this particular framework
>> looked good.
>>
>> Having said that, I think the principles of the different frameworks are
>> quite similar. What is probably more important is that we as a community
>> try and agree on a standard of how the translations are handled. If
>> individual app devs want to use this framework or that framework, I guess
>> that is really up to them. But having a single source of truth for the
>> translations used across the platform is something we should try and
>> achieve I think.
>>
>> The other thing I will say is that both of these frameworks also deal
>> with localization, such as commas in formatted numbers and date-time
>> formats. I did not really even start to address that issue, as its a bigger
>> one, such as support for RTL languages. Right now, Mark and I wanted to try
>> and simplify the i18n workflow of the translations only, but keeping
>> localization in mind is also of course important.
>>
>> Mark and I thought we would try (when we get time) with the cache cleaner
>> app, as its very simple. This would just to be to test the workflow
>> end-to-end, from coding to translation and then back again.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jason
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 11:00 PM, Jim Grace <jim@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jason and Mark,
>>>
>>> Thanks for putting all this together. It looks reasonable to me (though
>>> I don't know much about it.) I'd also be interested in your answer to
>>> Morten's question about react-intl + format-js.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Morten Olav Hansen <morten@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jason
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry, but I think it's more about the lack of time to answer, it's
>>>> been a very busy week. Now we have a "mini" holiday in Norway, so will try
>>>> and read it and reply.
>>>>
>>>> My immediate thoughts is that any kind of improvement is good.
>>>>
>>>> I'm a bit surprised you didn't suggest something like react-intl +
>>>> format-js though, seems to be very popular among the react-js community..
>>>> maybe i18nnext is more similar to our current gettext/po system?
>>>>
>>>> Just talking about VN locally, what they want is proper input format
>>>> (comma vs punctum etc), but I think there is already something happening
>>>> there (not sure if it's client side only, or also on server, analytics etc,
>>>> at least 2.24 will have some kind of option for output).
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Morten Olav Hansen
>>>> Senior Engineer, DHIS 2
>>>> University of Oslo
>>>> http://www.dhis2.org
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 11:37 PM, Jason Pickering <
>>>> jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Devs,
>>>>>
>>>>> Since there has been no feedback yet, I assume this means we are clear
>>>>> to proceed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark and I will coordinate the refactor and inform the various app
>>>>> developers of the new procedure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Jason
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Jason Pickering <
>>>>> jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> First, apologies for cross-posting. I was not sure who was on which
>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark and I have put together a review document regarding translations
>>>>>> and localization. This was spurred in part by my recent interaction with
>>>>>> the i18n community who produces the Pootle software, which is used for the DHIS2
>>>>>> Translation server <http://translate.dhis2.org/> and the challenges
>>>>>> we face in getting translations into the software.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think we can all agree that the current state of the translations
>>>>>> is pretty poor. Much of the software is at best partially translated.
>>>>>> Translations typically are an effort taken by particular implementers, and
>>>>>> when the realize how much work it is, they typically stall. Certain
>>>>>> translations such as Arabic were performed to almost completion at the
>>>>>> time, but have since not regularly been updated along with the source code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think we can do better, and Mark and I put this document together
>>>>>> to suggest some possible way forward to improve how we internationalize the
>>>>>> software and hopefully bring in the broader localization community into the
>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please have a look, edit and comment here
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1u0YhRZD2Q3F8p6VCsz7dXdZxJL45R0qsEfsNc0OCJYs/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jason P. Pickering
>>>>>> email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> tel:+46764147049
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jason P. Pickering
>>>>> email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> tel:+46764147049
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs-core
>>>>> Post to     : dhis2-devs-core@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs-core
>>>> Post to     : dhis2-devs-core@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jim Grace
>>> Core developer, DHIS 2
>>> HISP US Inc.
>>> http://www.dhis2.org <https://www.dhis2.org/>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jason P. Pickering
>> email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
>> tel:+46764147049
>>
>