dhis2-devs team mailing list archive

[Knut Staring <knutst@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi,

As far as I understood, Abyot, Saptarshi and Bob came to a good and workable
solution for going forward with the CBS during the India workshop. I suggest
we just stick to that plan.

Knut

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Abyot Gizaw <abyota@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Ola Hodne Titlestad <olati@xxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> Hi Abyot
>>
>> Thanks for writing this up on the list. As you say it should be moved to
>> launchpad and the blueprint is a good place for such specification and
>> design discussions.
>> This link will create a new blueprint for DHIS 2 and in the field
>> Specification URL you can link to your pdf:
>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/dhis2/+addspec
>>
>
> Yes I can do that. But this will again appear as an idependent blueprint.
> Right now we have 3 different postings about CBS on the launchpad (one by
> you, one by Bob and another one by Saptarshi, I wanted to append it to any
> one of these ... otherwise it will be difficult to keep coherence) - I don't
> know this is my impression with a little interaction I have with launchpad
>
>
>>
>> To all of you:
>>
>> I have a few questions about this system, mostly related to use cases.
>
>
> Good!
>
>
>>
>>
>> I assume that the community health worker will collect the data, either on
>> a paper form or on a mobile phone acting as a client. The same end user will
>> also receive updated work plans, visit lists and feedback reports if I have
>> understood correctly. These users are visiting their clients in their homes,
>> although some of these users have their base at the health facility (ANMs)
>> while others (ASHAs) work only in the community with looser links to the
>> health facilities. Is this correct?
>
>
> Not sure on the feedback report ... haven't seen such a usecase from my
> visits. But this doesn't mean that it will not be considerd. And again from
> my observation and the discussion I have with Sundeep, ASHAs are not in the
> proper MoH structure and they are not eligible to do any reporting or data
> collection ... our focus is only ANMs or JPHNs in the case of Kerala. And
> ANMs are doing the house-to-house visits followed by service delivery and
> data collection, recording these on primary registers and finally data entry
> in DHIS2 (after manually tallying specific services from their primary
> registers)
>
>
>>
>>
>> My main question is: where do you see the backbone (main) system
>> installed? I mean the system where the forms are generated, data is
>> collected/imported and work plans and feedback reports generated. If the end
>> users has a mobile phone for data entry etc. then the mobile phone and this
>> backbone system would act as a server-client setup. If data is collected on
>> paper, then this system would be the first level of computerisation, meaning
>> where data is entered into the computer, similar to how it works for routine
>> data collection in DHIS.
>
>
> The main system will be installed in either a subcenter/facility or PHC -
> not sure on the similarity or differnce between facility and subcenter,
> somebody can correct me. This system is a first level computerization, as
> you pointed out. I have tried to make it clear in my earlier mails that the
> mobile is something which is going to come in the final stage. So generating
> an activity plan on the paper followed by automation of the backend is the
> first target ... then mobile will follow.
>
>
>>
>>
>> If I understood correctly the DHIS is installed (or planned to be rolled
>> out) at block PHC ("subdistrict") level all over in India and that
>> computerisation of lower levels than block (PHC and subcenters (=facility?)
>> ) is not likely due to the enormous scale. I assume that the orgunit level
>> for computerisation (where you have computerised data entry, either via
>> internet accessing a server or directly on a standalone installation) will
>> be the same for DHIS and for the CBS, as both systems would benefit from
>> being installed as low as possible within the limits of infrastructure and
>> capacty for maintanance.
>
>
> True. I think I have tried to address this, in the attaced PDF file,  by
> extending the orgunit structure of DHIS2 so that it includes village, then
> house then family and then individual.
>
>
>>
>>
>> As a result of the gap between the community health workers and the lowest
>> orgunit level of computerisation, from community to block, the mobile phone
>> is introduced as a possible bridge that can collect data during house visits
>> and send to the block PHC using SMS or other mobile transport. Without the
>> mobile phone clients the patient level forms would have to be sent on paper
>> all the way up to the block which doesn't make sense, and in I guess in
>> stead it would be aggregated at the facility and sent up only as monthly
>> aggregated reports (which is the current and usual scenario). Only with
>> either a computer system installed locally at the facility (subscenter) or
>> with mobile clients in the community it would be possible to deal with
>> patient/individual level data. Are these assumptions correct? And if you
>> have a computer at the facility then I also assume that you would have DHIS
>> installed there as well to improve data collection and feedback report
>> possibilities also for aggregated data.
>>
>> Sorry for dragging this out, but I guess my main comment here is that
>> wouldn't DHIS and CBC always be installed (or accessed via internet) from
>> the same orgunit level?
>> If not, what makes the CBC different from DHIS when it comes to where it
>> should be installed and how it can be maintained?
>
>
> Just to make things STRAIGHT and VERY CLEAR .... because I think we are
> making a big out of it which I couldn't really understand.
>
> It is me who first got a hands on experience on OpenMRS and then decided
> not to put any effort on OpenMRS for the task I planned in my PhD proposal.
> And it is me who first implemented line-listing in DHIS2, and again it is me
> who wanted to extend individual data collection using mobile phone for rural
> settings ....... but for all this efforts of mine in extending DHIS2 for
> individual (non-EPR) data collection - I got criticised for trying to do the
> "most difficult task in HISP........ trying to break the whole philosphy of
> DHIS2 [from aggregate to individual] .......... not willing to work in
> OpenMRS ....."
>
> I don't really understand what we are talking right now .... you only are
> trying to tell me what I belived and wanted to do long time back. If people
> don't have trust in what I am doing - then I think better to just leave it
> for me. Honestly, I couldn't really point out any meaningful discussion from
> this whole week - it is just talk, confusion, talk ... no meaningful
> contribution.
>
>
> Thank you
> Abyot.
>
>
>
>>
>> I guess we should paste all this into a blueprint when it is ready.
>>
>> best regards,
>> Ola Hodne Titlestad
>> HISP
>> University of Oslo
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Abyot Gizaw <abyota@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>>  Hi All,
>>>
>>> Please find the attached presentation I made last time in our Delhi
>>> Workshop - I feel there is a lot in that document to shape the
>>> design-development process of our community-based system. And I would be
>>> happy if someone can post this presentation on launchapd -- sorry couldn't
>>> get a link on launchpad for uploading a file.
>>>
>>> As per the discussion we made we are now on the way to start development
>>> and would appreciate any input you might have. To recall the discussion, the
>>> focus is on house-to-house service delivery for an individual and its
>>> subsequent followup with a final goal of generating aggregate figure for
>>> DHIS2.
>>>
>>> And five points are visible in here - individual, house, service,
>>> followup and aggregation - which I think our datamodel should base upon.
>>> Individual's grouped together and forming a family, a family with/with-out a
>>> house and a number of houses in a village belonging to a subcenter/facility
>>> is a context we will be facing out in the community. A health-worker should
>>> therefore plan ahead where to go, which house and which individual to meet,
>>> and what kind of service to provide. This requires for a strict planning of
>>> activity with inputs from standard health services and procedures (for
>>> example FP, ANC, Birth, Immunization, ...) and current where about of
>>> individuals (making issues of migration another critical factor). In the
>>> end, the ground realtity (health status) of a particular village should be
>>> reflected in the overall country's HMIS - aggregation and DHIS2.
>>>
>>> To break things in pieces/objects
>>>
>>>
>>>    - Individual
>>>    - family
>>>    - house
>>>    - village
>>>    - service
>>>       - procedure
>>>       - cycle
>>>    - migration
>>>       - hierarchy
>>>    - activity plan
>>>    - aggregation
>>>       - search
>>>       - query
>>>    - export
>>>
>>> Let's just put these pieces on the wall and trace their relationships or
>>> even break them further.
>>>
>>>
>>> *Saptarshi*: I hope you have got some input for revising your datamodel.
>>>
>>> *Vivek*: Can you arrange one visit, for Saptarshi, to any ANM Subcenter?
>>>
>>>
>>> *Ola*: I know that I haven't said anything about line-listing.... but I
>>> feel that there will not be any major line-listing design issue to be
>>> considered in here. Things will get shaped in this design-development
>>> process (which is very much iterative).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>> Abyot.
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
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>
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>


-- 
Cheers,
Knut Staring