dhis2-devs team mailing list archive

[Chau Thu Tran <tran.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Abyot,

I take a look the model.

Do you want to use attribute group for listing attributes according to group
in input-attribute GUI and we don't create a relationship between patient
and attribute group ??

If we do that, end-user have to choose groups many times to enter all
attribute for patient. For example, we have 3 groups for Mother Form:
1. Resident address group : phonenumber, housenumber, street
2. Temp. address group : phonenumber, housenumber , street
3. Mother group : pre-pergnancy
4. Child group : weight, aprar 1, apgar 2, malformation.

When end-users input attributes for Mother Object, they choose 3 groups:
Resident group, temp. group and Mother group.

Why don't we assign groups for patient before. How do you have any
suggestion for this problem ?

================================
Châu Thu Trân
HISP Viet Nam
Email: tran.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx
Cell phone: +84 97 324 1542
================================


On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Chau Thu Tran
<tran.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> Hi Abyot,
>
> I also think about that. I'm tryng to remove attributes.
>
> ================================
> Châu Thu Trân
> HISP Viet Nam
> Email: tran.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx
> Cell phone: +84 97 324 1542
> ================================
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 1:52 PM, Abyot Gizaw <abyota@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tran,
>>
>> Have seen your changes.... great job!
>>
>> But a small comment ... a patient has both attribute and attributeGroup
>> assigned to it. I think one of them should be removed :)
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 6:37 AM, Chau Thu Tran <
>> tran.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Abyot and Others,
>>>
>>> I test a case to assign attribute groups to patients. I created new
>>> function named *Assign Attribute Groups* for each in list of patients.
>>> It means after to create a patient, end-users have to choose the function to
>>> assign attribute groups for the patients. The groups in here is option, not
>>> madatory group. And attributes of madatory groups will show when end-users
>>> enter *patient-attribute-value.*
>>>
>>> How do you think about this ?
>>>
>>> I send the patch.diff file to you. Please find enclosed the attached
>>> file to see the report.
>>>
>>> ================================
>>> Châu Thu Trân
>>> HISP Viet Nam
>>> Email: tran.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx
>>> Cell phone: +84 97 324 1542
>>> ================================
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Abyot Gizaw <abyota@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Tran,
>>>>
>>>> Great that you already started working on the attribute group ...... and
>>>> treating the whole thing as a two step process will be nice
>>>>
>>>>    1. creating  the attribute group .... with all the parameters it is
>>>>    required to have - including assigning/reassigning attribute(s)
>>>>    2. assigning attribute(s) to patients
>>>>
>>>> *Creating attribute group*
>>>>
>>>> For step 1 you can follow the approach we have in DataElements and
>>>> DataElementGroups. At the same I would suggest for a restriction of putting
>>>> an attribute only in one group - otherwise it will be ugly down the road.
>>>> Because, for example in your case of permanent and temporary address
>>>>
>>>> Temporary Address Group
>>>>
>>>>    - street
>>>>    - village
>>>>    - province
>>>>    - ...
>>>>    - ..
>>>>    - phone
>>>>
>>>> then Permanent Address Group arrangement of the same attributes
>>>>
>>>>    - street
>>>>    - village
>>>>    - province
>>>>    - ...
>>>>    - ..
>>>>    - phone
>>>>
>>>> will create a problem in fetching the values ... otherwise we need to
>>>> also store attribute group id when persisting attribute values.....I prefer
>>>> to append something like "temp" and create slightly different attributes
>>>> than persisting attribute group id when storing attribute values - I don't
>>>> know others can comment on this and come up with a better suggestion.
>>>>
>>>> *Assigning attributes to patients*
>>>>
>>>> We need to make a little adjustment for this one. Because if we plan to
>>>> enforce users put value, the moment they register a patient, for some
>>>> selected attributes, then we need to bring these mandatory attributes to the
>>>> screen where we are entering patient parameters. So this implies two changes
>>>> then: the first one adding additional Boolean parameter with a value of
>>>> yes/no for attributes and the second one, at the bottom of the patient
>>>> registration screen (under name, sex, age), we need to list these mandatory
>>>> attributes and enforce users put values while registering patients. But for
>>>> this to work, pray that mandatory attributes are valid for all individuals
>>>> we will be registering. Other, if we have a scenario of mandatory for males,
>>>> females, mothers, children,.... then we are in trouble of slipping into
>>>> multiple registration forms varied for males, females, mothers, babies
>>>> ------ what do you people think, especially those of you who have had the
>>>> experience of the field?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tran, is this any thing helpful for the question you asked? I know you
>>>> asked me for specific places to put the functionality you are making ... but
>>>> I thought raising these issues will also guide you.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>>>  Abyot.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Chau Thu Tran <
>>>> tran.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Abyot and others,
>>>>>
>>>>> I created the function of attribute group management. And now, I don't
>>>>> know where is suitable place to add that function. I thought to put on one
>>>>> of three places as below, but i am not sure.
>>>>> 1. Create groups property for patient and request users add it in new
>>>>> patient GUI
>>>>> 2. Create other function named Add Groups for each in list of patients.
>>>>> 3. Create combox to load all of groups existing in the system and
>>>>> end-user has to choose each group to enter attribute.
>>>>>
>>>>> What is your suggestion?
>>>>>
>>>>> ================================
>>>>> Châu Thu Trân
>>>>> HISP Viet Nam
>>>>> Email: tran.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Cell phone: +84 97 324 1542
>>>>> ================================
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Cong Duong Dinh <
>>>>> duong_dinhcong@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  OK Tran that's good,
>>>>>> Try to go ahead......
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duong Dinh Cong MD. PhD
>>>>>> Community Health Department
>>>>>> Medical School Pham Ngoc Thach
>>>>>> Home 22 Ho Huan Nghiep Q1 HCM City
>>>>>> 0903359924
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- @ WiseStamp Signature<http://my.wisestamp.com/link?u=6zk6hnnyzjswmm3g&site=www.wisestamp.com/email-install>.
>>>>>> Get it now<http://my.wisestamp.com/link?u=6zk6hnnyzjswmm3g&site=www.wisestamp.com/email-install>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duong Dinh Cong CUF/UTC 520 Ng Tri Phuong QX HCM-City Vietnam Tel 84 8
>>>>>> 8631383 Fax 84 8 650025
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:41:39 +0700
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Dhis2-devs] Greetings + new DHIS patient module
>>>>>> From: tran.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> To: abyota@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> CC: duong_dinhcong@xxxxxxxxxxx; tranthanhtri84@xxxxxxxxx;
>>>>>> sam.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx; thuy.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx;
>>>>>> hieu.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx; catakim@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Abyot,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Mother Form system has two objects, mother and child. There are
>>>>>> somes attributes belonging to mother that does not belong to child and vice
>>>>>> versa. For example, the atributes of mother are housenumber, street and pre-prefnacy
>>>>>> (***). And the attributes of child are information when to be born,
>>>>>> include apgar 1, apgar 5, weight and malformation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I build attributes for the object in your module, I have to
>>>>>> define all of  the attributes of the mother and child. So, when to create a
>>>>>> new object and input attributes for it, all of the attributes of both
>>>>>> objects are displayed in the form. How do you think if we have a function to
>>>>>> group attributes of each.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, I created attributes, dataelements, relationship and a program
>>>>>> for Mother Form, as follows:
>>>>>>  - Attribute : pre-pegnacy, housenumber, street, weight, apgar 1,
>>>>>> apgar 2, malformation.
>>>>>>  - Relationship: is mother of / is child of
>>>>>>  - Program : Mother Form with stages: Before to born, After to born
>>>>>> and Result
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and try to enter some forms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, I do not created  the realationship for mother and child
>>>>>> objects (because when I choose the relationship to add,  the system reload
>>>>>> the page without saving the selected objects to create relationship).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When will we be able to start develop with you in this patient system
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------
>>>>>> *** pre-pregnacy : it has four digits.
>>>>>>       - First: number of *unpremature-birth* children
>>>>>>       - Second : number of *premature-birth* children
>>>>>>       - Third:  number of *abortion*
>>>>>> *      *- Forth: number of *alive *children
>>>>>>       Example: a mother A has a unpremature-birth child
>>>>>> --> pre-pregnacy is 1001
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2010/1/21 Chau Thu Tran <tran.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chào thầy và các bạn
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Em đã tạo các DEs của phiếu sanh để test thử module DHIS2 và phát hiện
>>>>>> một số vấn đề (đã gửi mail và Abyot đã trả lời mail ).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Em đang thảo luận với Abyot về các vấn đề khi áp dụng chương trình
>>>>>> Patient cho Việt Nam. Sau khi đã rõ ràng về requirements ở Việt Nam, em sẽ
>>>>>> thảo luận tiếp các việc phải làm cho module này.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great that you have started looking into the patient module of DHIS2.
>>>>>> The advantage with this module is that it is part of DHIS2 - no installation
>>>>>> of other system and also easy sharing of dataelements and orgunits defined
>>>>>> under DHIS2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Below is a little clarification for some of the questions you raised.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    1. *Issue with multiple address* - Address is a little tricky
>>>>>>    concept, I believe. If treated with a single object, say for example
>>>>>>    Address, and set of attributes then we will end up in a difficulty of
>>>>>>    entertaining all the possible definitions an address is supposed to have.
>>>>>>    For a global software like DHIS2 we need to treat the address concept as
>>>>>>    open as possible there by allowing a flexibility for specific local
>>>>>>    definitions of addresses. So how we treat address is then is using objects
>>>>>>    PersonAttribute and PersonAttributeValue. Using PersonAttribute we can
>>>>>>    create as many custom objects as possible - say for example StreetAddress
>>>>>>    with a datavalue type of text, HouseNumber with a datavalue type of number
>>>>>>    or text, PhoneNumber with number, ....... any custom object with datavalue
>>>>>>    type of text/number/yes_no/date....... once we defined such custom objects,
>>>>>>    we can latter put specific values through PersonAttributeValue. My
>>>>>>    suggestion for your case will be to define the parameters of your temporary
>>>>>>    and resident addresses as PersonAttributes and for each person attribute
>>>>>>    create a person attribute value - then latter you can group these attributes
>>>>>>    into "Temporary Address" and "Resident Address"........ of course we need to
>>>>>>    first provide a functionality for grouping of person attributes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    1. *Integration with DataElements* - Yes the patient module uses
>>>>>>    dataelements defined under DHIS2. But to avoid confusion with the value
>>>>>>    types and aggregation operation we have introduced an attribute called
>>>>>>    domainType with a possible values of patient and aggregate for the time
>>>>>>    being. The reason for this is for example in the patient module you might
>>>>>>    only be interested in putting a yes or no value for a specific vaccine type,
>>>>>>    but in the aggregate/DHIS you might only be interested in knowing for how
>>>>>>    many babies this specific vaccine is given. So the bottom line is when
>>>>>>    defining your dataelements specify for which domain you are creating them
>>>>>>    --- then those with patient type will appear in the patient module and those
>>>>>>    with aggregate type will appear in DHIS
>>>>>>    2. *Health Program Stage* - this is to handle specific stages of a
>>>>>>    health program - because you might have multiple encounters for a given
>>>>>>    health program. For example in your case there will be a scenario where a
>>>>>>    pregnant  woman will be treated for her first trimester, second trimester
>>>>>>    and/or third trimester once she is in "ANC Program". This encounters in most
>>>>>>    cases are mandatory, of course there will be dropouts in some cases, which a
>>>>>>    pregnant woman should go through once she is in the "ANC Program". So when
>>>>>>    creating a health program you can also define the specific stages of the
>>>>>>    health program. Because you will be recording observations (collecting
>>>>>>    values) during each of these specific stages, then you associate
>>>>>>    dataelements with program stages not programs. To make it more general a
>>>>>>    health program can have one or more program stages - like you observe a
>>>>>>    patients cases once or multiple times. This approach works fine for ANC,
>>>>>>    Immunization, TB, Malaria,....
>>>>>>    3. *Date of Incidence* - Let's say you define a health program and
>>>>>>    its stages as mentioned above. And a person comes for treatment, say for
>>>>>>    example pregnant woman. Then the system should automatically generate visit
>>>>>>    dates for the subsequent ANC visits - or program stages. But to generate
>>>>>>    these visit schedules we need to ask the mother when is the first time she
>>>>>>    got pregnant, or in the standard ANC term ??LMP Date??. The day she came for
>>>>>>    treatment might not necessarily be the day she got pregnant, therefore for a
>>>>>>    better treatment (by having appropriate visit dates) it will be nice if we
>>>>>>    can get information about the date she got pregnant - that is what the Date
>>>>>>    of Incidence is all about. The same logic also works for a TB patient for
>>>>>>    example - the date the person came for treatment might not necessarily be
>>>>>>    the date he/she got the disease --- so better to know the date of incidence.
>>>>>>    4. *Custom Data Entry Form and Reports *- I think Viet has
>>>>>>    answered this partly - as he is working on custom data entry screens. What
>>>>>>    we have right now is more of a generic framework - input screens, reports
>>>>>>    layouts,... are something which we need to further work for specific
>>>>>>    implementations.
>>>>>>    5. *Relationships* - Yes we can define any relationship types and
>>>>>>    link individuals through these relationship types by creating specific
>>>>>>    relationships.And we have this feature currently. What is missing is where
>>>>>>    to specifically use these relationships, and I think this again depends on
>>>>>>    specific implementations. I think of displaying relationship types in
>>>>>>    reports and dataentry screens
>>>>>>    6. *Registering a newly born baby *- This I would say is a
>>>>>>    limitation of the system ... if you all think we can't assign a name for a
>>>>>>    newly born baby before giving the baby any treatment we will be recording in
>>>>>>    our system. My argument is any individual should first be registered in the
>>>>>>    system before getting any treatment which we will be interested to record
>>>>>>    data for - I could be wrong :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope I have addressed all your questions, but I couldn't understand
>>>>>> one of your question shown below
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The program have two objects, mother and child. They have some
>>>>>> different properties. For example, mother has pre-pregnacy, child has apgar
>>>>>> 1, apgar 5, malformation. We defines all of attributes for the
>>>>>> objects. Because the system doesn't separates objects, so when to create a
>>>>>> branch new object and input the attributes to it, the system show all of the
>>>>>> attributes.How do you only show information for each object ?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>> Abyot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2010/1/21 Kim Anh Thi Vo <catakim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hei all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How's it going?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the reply!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2010/1/20 Jørn Braa <jornbraa@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> I suggest that
>>>>>> Tran and Abyot work together on the DHIS patient module and that
>>>>>>  we implement the patient module on the Mother and Child records in
>>>>>> the centre  - and maybe other areas, and
>>>>>>  use the concrete Vietnamese useers requirements and use situation to
>>>>>> make the module much better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I checked out the DHIS patient module yesterday and it seems very open
>>>>>> and good with design... simple, flexible and intergatable.
>>>>>> Referring to the explaination by Jørn a few days ago, this module is
>>>>>> clear to me :)
>>>>>> And here is some questions I'd like to ask Abyot maybe about this
>>>>>> module:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. I created patients with all attributes + add some more ones (esp.
>>>>>> the case in Vietnam... there are two address: "current address" and
>>>>>> "permanent address", etc.) and then created some relationships (for example,
>>>>>> for Mother and Child programs, that is "is a mother of", "is a child of"),
>>>>>> but when going back to the patient lists to assign the relationship... this
>>>>>> function couldn't be through... choosing the list of relationships but
>>>>>> nothing HAPPEND next...???
>>>>>> 2. I see the integration part for Program with DAEL... but don't know
>>>>>> how to link/integrate with the current/existing DAELs of DHIS2?
>>>>>> 3. About come concepts:
>>>>>> 3.1. Incident? What is "Date of incident"?
>>>>>> 3.2. What is "Health Program State"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe further question relating to this... will come later :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another issue; Quang is supposed to start work with us from March?
>>>>>> Everybody agrees? and have you discussed with him?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Remember mentioning this before and also talked to him... when I
>>>>>> attended GNOME ASIA last year, and will contact with Quang for this after
>>>>>> having the related information as I ask below!
>>>>>> Jørn, will he work part-time for HISP Vietnam to support dev team?
>>>>>> Are there any previous information about this connection/discussion
>>>>>> with him (Quang) between HISP in general and HISP Vietnam in particular?
>>>>>> If having, it'd be great you can give them to me... because I wanna
>>>>>> know the status referring to this!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> jorn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2010/1/18 Jørn Braa <jornbraa@xxxxxxxxx>:
>>>>>> > Dear all,
>>>>>> > Hope everything is fine in the new year and that next (Vietnamese)
>>>>>> > year will be even better for HISP.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I write to update you on the new DHIS patient module. It is generic
>>>>>> > and flexible and easy to set up. The use area is exactly what you
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> > working on with the Mother and Child records, and what we discussed
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> > Can Tho on for example vaccination (child) records.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > This patient (/client) module is
>>>>>> > - registering names, birth dates, sex, adresses, IDs etc
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Persons may be (optional)
>>>>>> > - grouped in households (or mother - children)
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Then for each patient/client
>>>>>> > - each Encounter with the health services is registered
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Encounters are then linked to
>>>>>> > - health facility (org unit), and
>>>>>> > - Programs (e.g. RCH, EPI) which includes Schedules (e.g. sequence
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> > months after birth of required vaccines for an infant)
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Programs are then linked to
>>>>>> > - data sets and data elements. These data elements are as DHIS data
>>>>>> elements.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > INTEGRATION with aggregated HMIS data:
>>>>>> > - data is aggregated by the end of each reporting period as
>>>>>> according
>>>>>> > to the reporting requirements
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > For example the number of ANC first visits, or BCGs, Polio1s, Measle
>>>>>> > vaccines etc.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > This system will be very well suited for the Mother and CHild - or
>>>>>> > vaccination -  registers.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The system is easy to design so it fits various patient data
>>>>>> > requirements from health programs. It may be regarded as an
>>>>>> extension
>>>>>> > of the DHIS reporting system for statistical data.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > This system is now being tested in India. Here they are also using
>>>>>> mobile
>>>>>> > telephones - which we should also test in Vietnam.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > This was a very quick run-through. Lars and AByot can update on
>>>>>> current "state
>>>>>> > of the art", and other issues.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > As discussed before, I suggest that we start working on this DHIS
>>>>>> > patient module system in Vietnam now.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > best regards,
>>>>>> > jorn
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Kim Anh Vo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +84.906612246
>>>>>> kavo@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Coordinator of HISP(hisp.info) in Vietnam
>>>>>> Master of Information Systems
>>>>>> at the University of Oslo
>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>> join facebook at www.facebook.com join LinkedIn at www.linkedin.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>