dhis2-devs team mailing list archive

[Lars Helge Øverland <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx>]

2010/6/29 Bob Jolliffe <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx>

> 2010/6/29 Lars Helge Øverland <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx>:
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Jason Pickering
> > <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi. I agree and here is the use case.
> >>
> >> Data sets are essentially transient collections of data elements. In
> >> Zambia, data used to be collected quarterly and was disaggregated by
> >> Under 5 and Over 5. It is now collected monthly and by Under 1, 1-5
> >> and Over 5. In theory, this phenomenn (which is fairly common, i.e.
> >> changing of periodicity and disaggregation) should be able to be
> >> represented by two separate data sets. This is essentially what we
> >> have done now as I am able to assign different period types to
> >> different datasets with the same data element. But because of the
> >> inability to assign multiple category combos to a data element, I have
> >> left all of the data elements as non-multidimensional data elements,
> >> as I cannot represent the change in disaggregation over time.
> >>
> >> Having the ability to associate a data element with a data set (with a
> >> given periodicity), assigning a data element to this data set, and
> >> then assigning a category combo to the data element within that data
> >> set (thus, a composite key between DE, catcombo and dataset) would
> >> solve this problem. It is not clear to me either, even with the
> >> current state of the data value table why this could not be possible
> >> from the data model side.
> >>
> >
> > Moving the CategoryCombo association from DataElement to Section might
> not
> > be a bad idea, and doesn't sound too invasive. I think it has to be
> Section
> > - not DataSet - since we after the current modification can have multiple
> > Sections in a DataSet and each section can have a CategoryCombo.
> > I think Jasons issue is slightly different. Seeing historical data when
> > disaggregation has changed will always be an issue. In cases where a
> certain
> > disaggregation is followed by a more fine-grained disaggregation (like
> 0-5,
> > 5+ to 0-1, 1-5, 5+), I cannot really see how you can present the
> historical
> > data (eg for 0-1).
> > Lars
>
> True.  But there is some rolling up which could be done.  For example
> a simple implementation could always present historical data for the
> total of the category.  A smarter implementation (admittedly much
> smarter) could present historical data for 0-5.  But mostly I think it
> is a simplification.  We need to attach a categorycombo to a section
> anyway.  The logic maintaining the categorycombo link to a dataelement
> and then ensure that only dataelements of the right categorycombo are
> fitted into the right sections becomes redundandant.  As you say I
> don't think its too invasive (it doesn't change the way datavalues are
> stored) but probably also not a priority.
>
>
I think it will be a nice improvement. Users tend to be confused by the
dataelement-categorycombo thing. Lets see if there are objections and if
not, write a blueprint for 2.0.6.


> Regards
> Bob
>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Jason
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> wrote:
> >> > 2010/6/27 Jason Pickering <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx>:
> >> >> Understood, but then this would require a complete overhaul of the
> >> >> data model. If you look at the data value table, there are separate
> >> >> keys for dataelementid and periodid, which implies that data values
> >> >> can be observed in multiple places over multiple time periods (which
> >> >> may themselves have different durations). This seems logical and
> >> >> certainly reasonable. Otherwise, there would need to be an
> association
> >> >> between a given data element and a given periodicity type, where now
> >> >> the association is between a data set and a periodicity type. A given
> >> >> dataset would thus derive its periodicity from a data element, whose
> >> >> association would need to be specifically set when creating the data
> >> >> element, and not the other way around.
> >> >>
> >> >> I would strongly urge that it be best avoided, and or implemented
> >> >> specifically on a local branch for the SA team.
> >> >
> >> > Reading through these mails and looking at the datalement type,  I
> >> > can't help feeling that the same argument also applies to the
> >> > categorycombo (disaggregation, key family ...).  Just as a dataelement
> >> > should not inherently be tied to a periodicity neither should it
> >> > inherently be tied to a categorycombo.  I can't really see a good
> >> > reason for it other than it may have looked simpler at the time.  Like
> >> > the periodicity, the categorycombo can be determined by the dataset
> >> > (or maybe more accurately - the section of the dataset) in which the
> >> > dataelement is used.  Probably this is an aside and I don't really
> >> > have the real use cases to back it up but I suspect it results in a
> >> > simplification and increased flexibility so its a thought to keep in
> >> > mind.
> >> >
> >> > Regards
> >> > Bob
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards,
> >> >> Jason
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> 2010/6/27 Lars Helge Øverland <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx>:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 7:15 AM, Jason Pickering
> >> >>> <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Hi Lars,
> >> >>>> This bug has been troubling me since I saw the report but it has
> >> >>>> taken
> >> >>>> a few walks in the woods to figure out why. I am not comfortable
> with
> >> >>>> it being implemented and let me try and outline my argument.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> We are planning in Zambia to pilot the DHIS mobile app in certain
> >> >>>> districts. Community health workers will report certain data
> elements
> >> >>>> (e.g. Number of cases of clinical malaria under 1)  on a weekly
> >> >>>> basis.
> >> >>>> This same data element is reported on a monthly basis at the health
> >> >>>> facility. Each community health worker will be attached to a health
> >> >>>> center. Therefore the monthly total for a given health facility
> >> >>>> should
> >> >>>> be the number of cases observed at the health facility itself
> >> >>>> (monthly) plus the number of cases observed by a CHW (weekly). As
> it
> >> >>>> has been made clear by Ola several times, one can create any number
> >> >>>> of
> >> >>>> datasets, and associate a certain periodicity with them. The
> >> >>>> periodicity is thus associated with the data set and not the data
> >> >>>> element itself.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> This is really going to cause huge problems for us in particular,
> as
> >> >>>> we have certain data elements, which in the past have been
> collected
> >> >>>> quarterly, but which are now collected monthly. They exist in
> >> >>>> different data sets with different periodicities.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Could you provide more detail as to why this should not be allowed?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> In this case its just a matter of conflicting wishes :-) The SA team
> >> >>> is used
> >> >>> to having an explicit period type for each data element and wanted
> >> >>> this
> >> >>> implemented. But since we currently are allowing data elements to
> >> >>> appear in
> >> >>> multiple datasets with different period types (as you point out) and
> >> >>> it will
> >> >>> cause you trouble we should maybe avoid it.
> >> >>> Lars
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Regards,
> >> >>>> Jason
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> 2010/6/26 Lars Helge Øverland <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx>:
> >> >>>> > On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Thu Tran
> >> >>>> > <tran.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >> Hi Lars,
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> I'm busy to check database in Ho Chi Minh City. I didn't
> remember
> >> >>>> >> to do
> >> >>>> >> your
> >> >>>> >> bugs. I'm so sorry.
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> I sent the patch file for this bug to you. Please check it.
> Thank
> >> >>>> >> you
> >> >>>> >> very
> >> >>>> >> much.
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> > Hi Tran, sorry I can not seem to find this patch, can you please
> >> >>>> > re-send
> >> >>>> > it?
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > cheers Lars
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >> Best regards,
> >> >>>> >> ================================
> >> >>>> >> Châu Thu Trân
> >> >>>> >> HISP Viet Nam
> >> >>>> >> Email: tran.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx
> >> >>>> >> Cell phone: +84 97 324 1542
> >> >>>> >> ================================
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> 2010/6/21 Lars Helge Øverland <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> > ** Changed in: dhis2
> >> >>>> >> >     Assignee: Thu Tran (tran-hispvietnam) => Thanh Tri Tran
> >> >>>> >> > (tranthanhtri84)
> >> >>>> >> >
> >> >>>> >> > --
> >> >>>> >> > Data element period not enforced with data set
> >> >>>> >> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/589776
> >> >>>> >> > You received this bug notification because you are a bug
> >> >>>> >> > assignee.
> >> >>>> >> >
> >> >>>> >> > Status in DHIS 2 - District Health Information Software:
> >> >>>> >> > Confirmed
> >> >>>> >> >
> >> >>>> >> > Bug description:
> >> >>>> >> > It is possible to add a data element to a data set even if the
> >> >>>> >> > data
> >> >>>> >> element
> >> >>>> >> > is a member of another data set with a different period type
> >> >>>> >> > than
> >> >>>> >> > this
> >> >>>> >> one.
> >> >>>> >> > This should not be allowed.
> >> >>>> >> >
> >> >>>> >> > We should filter out data elements with a different period
> type
> >> >>>> >> > (member
> >> >>>> >> of
> >> >>>> >> > data sets with different period type) when creating and
> updating
> >> >>>> >> > new
> >> >>>> >> > data
> >> >>>> >> > sets.
> >> >>>> >> >
> >> >>>> >> >
> >> >>>> >> >
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> ** Attachment added: "patch.diff"
> >> >>>> >>   http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50720647/patch.diff
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> --
> >> >>>> >> Data element period not enforced with data set
> >> >>>> >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/589776
> >> >>>> >> You received this bug notification because you are a direct
> >> >>>> >> subscriber
> >> >>>> >> of the bug.
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> Status in DHIS 2 - District Health Information Software:
> Confirmed
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> Bug description:
> >> >>>> >> It is possible to add a data element to a data set even if the
> >> >>>> >> data
> >> >>>> >> element
> >> >>>> >> is a member of another data set with a different period type
> than
> >> >>>> >> this
> >> >>>> >> one.
> >> >>>> >> This should not be allowed.
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> We should filter out data elements with a different period type
> >> >>>> >> (member
> >> >>>> >> of
> >> >>>> >> data sets with different period type) when creating and updating
> >> >>>> >> new
> >> >>>> >> data
> >> >>>> >> sets.
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> To unsubscribe from this bug, go to:
> >> >>>> >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/dhis2/+bug/589776/+subscribe
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > --
> >> >>>> > Data element period not enforced with data set
> >> >>>> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/589776
> >> >>>> > You received this bug notification because you are a member of
> DHIS
> >> >>>> > 2
> >> >>>> > developers, which is subscribed to DHIS.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > Status in DHIS 2 - District Health Information Software:
> Confirmed
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > Bug description:
> >> >>>> > It is possible to add a data element to a data set even if the
> data
> >> >>>> > element is a member of another data set with a different period
> >> >>>> > type than
> >> >>>> > this one. This should not be allowed.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > We should filter out data elements with a different period type
> >> >>>> > (member
> >> >>>> > of data sets with different period type) when creating and
> updating
> >> >>>> > new data
> >> >>>> > sets.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
> >> >>>> > Post to     : dhis2-devs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>>> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
> >> >>>> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> --
> >> >>>> --
> >> >>>> Jason P. Pickering
> >> >>>> email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
> >> >>>> tel:+260968395190
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
> >> >>>> Post to     : dhis2-devs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
> >> >>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> --
> >> >> Jason P. Pickering
> >> >> email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
> >> >> tel:+260968395190
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
> >> >> Post to     : dhis2-devs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
> >> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> --
> >> Jason P. Pickering
> >> email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
> >> tel:+260968395190
> >
> >
>