dhis2-devs team mailing list archive

[Lars Helge Øverland <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx>]

Great.


On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Adebusoye Anifalaje <busoye@xxxxxxxx>wrote:

> Thanks Lars,
>
> Works without the negative minimum values.
>
> Busoye
>
>
> On 3 Dec 2013, at 09:18, Lars Helge Øverland <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Ops sorry back-port didn't go through, fixed it now, download again in 30
> min.
>
> Lars
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Busoye Anifalaje <busoye@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Yes, set the data elements to Zero or positive integer
>> On Dec 3, 2013 7:47 AM, "Lars Helge Øverland" <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Just checking, did you remember to actually set number type to
>>> positive/zero or positive number?
>>> On Dec 3, 2013 12:08 AM, "Adebusoye Anifalaje" <busoye@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just tried on  Version: 2.13 Build revision: 12888. Still generating
>>>> negative values! Deleted all the values from the minmaxdataelement table
>>>> and ran the  min-max value generation again but negative values still
>>>> coming through for some minimum numbers (example attached).
>>>>
>>>> Am I missing something?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Busoye
>>>>
>>>> <Min-Max Negative Values.tiff>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2 Dec 2013, at 18:53, Lars Helge Øverland <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> the issue with negative values occurring as min-values for data
>>>> elements of type positive / zero-or-positive number, and positive values
>>>> occurring as max-values for data elements of type negative number have now
>>>> been fixed in trunk and 2.13.
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>>
>>>> Lars
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 12:00 AM, Jason Pickering <
>>>> jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Dapo.,
>>>>>
>>>>> This is just a design issue with DHIS2. There needs to be some better
>>>>> statistical methods employed to generate the min max, or a means to specify
>>>>> that the minimum should be zero for all values. There is no linkage between
>>>>> the value type and the method which the mix-max uses to generate its
>>>>> values. In our case, we use a combination of R and SQL to calculate
>>>>> "better" values on a regular basis. A bit of  a hack, but the current
>>>>> methods are simply not working for us either.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Jason
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 12:23 AM, Adebusoye Anifalaje <busoye@xxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To introduce a variation on this theme of generating min-max values:
>>>>>> I expected that if you set data element number type to Zero of Positive
>>>>>> Integer this should alter the distribution (in this case skew to the right
>>>>>> as Jason put it) and avoid the negative minimum values. From the tests I
>>>>>> have done, this is not happening.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The negative mim values are a real pain, anyone with a solution yet?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Busoye
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 31 May 2013, at 14:53, Gulam Khan <gm-khan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Dapo,
>>>>>> If you were to generate the min-max values automatically, insert them
>>>>>> into the database, and an authorized user was to change them, then they
>>>>>> would be overwritten.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can automatically generate these values through the data
>>>>>> administration module by dataset and orgunit in Data
>>>>>> Administration->Min-Max Value Generation . The problem is you often end up
>>>>>> with a lot of dubious values, such as negative numbers. This is a result of
>>>>>> the Gaussian distribution model which is applied (without taking any
>>>>>> skewness into effect). I have attached a plot from a real DHIS2 database,
>>>>>> which show sthat the distribution of many in DHIS2 are skewed left or right
>>>>>> (more often to the right) . Use of an unbounded, normal distribution for
>>>>>> calculation of the min-max is therefore not really appropriate. The
>>>>>> standard deviation approach is also highly sensitive to outliers, which
>>>>>> also creates problems for the outlier analysis if this approach is used.
>>>>>> Anyway, I digress. Just wanted to highlight that the in-built functions for
>>>>>> calculation of the min-max are rather primitive, and may not always lead to
>>>>>> good results.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not so sure about the ability to restrict the time periods for
>>>>>> which the mix-max is generated. I think you would end up with far too few
>>>>>> data points to make a meaningful standard deviation. You are really looking
>>>>>> for the extremes with the min-max, and restricting to such a a narrow time
>>>>>> interval would probably not give you these extremes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:47 PM, Dapo Adejumo <
>>>>>> dapo_adejumo@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It will be great if the generation of min-max values can be
>>>>>>> automated based on a global setting ( ability to select last 3,6 or 12
>>>>>>> months data) . I am curious what happens to these “hard coded” min/max
>>>>>>> values when the database is set to generate min/max values from the
>>>>>>> frontend – I will assume they are discarded since they reside in the same
>>>>>>> table? Or which takes precedence ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ................................................
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Regards,*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Dapo Adejumo*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *+234803363677*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *skype : dapojorge*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:* Dhis2-devs [mailto:dhis2-devs-bounces+dapo_adejumo=
>>>>>>> yahoo.com@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Jason Pickering
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:28 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* Juma Lungo
>>>>>>> *Cc:* dhis2-devs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Dhis2-devs] Setting MinMax Values
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think I agree with Lars as well. Our use case was we wanted to
>>>>>>> restrict values between 0 and 31, and not do it with a validation rule, to
>>>>>>> provide visual clues during data entry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As an aside, one may also want to calculate these values and save
>>>>>>> them to the database. The current algorithm uses a standard deviation
>>>>>>> approach, which is problematic, in that in many cases the data which is
>>>>>>> typically observed does not follow a normal Gaussian distribution. Other
>>>>>>> statistical models often provide better estimates of the mix/max, but
>>>>>>> currently, cannot be calculated automatically by the system. If these
>>>>>>> values are calculated externally in some statistical package, they can be
>>>>>>> inserted back into the system (or even automated).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 6:25 PM, Juma Lungo <jlungo@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with Lars
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lungo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:* Lars Helge Øverland <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> *To:* Jason Pickering <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> *Cc:* dhis2-devs <dhis2-devs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2013 2:43 PM
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Dhis2-devs] Setting MinMax Values
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Conrad,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the min-max data element is per org unit and data element like you
>>>>>>> say, so it applies to all current and future periods by definition. I don't
>>>>>>> know your use-case... but in general one might want to think twice before
>>>>>>> setting the same max value for all facilities, since they usually have very
>>>>>>> different catchment population and hence natural variations in numbers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lars
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <skewness.png>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
>