dhis2-devs team mailing list archive

[Lars Helge Øverland <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Rodolfo,

I think including attribute option combo to min-max data element makes
sense. The problem of course is when you want a min-max to apply to all
attribute option combos - not a specific one - which I can only guess is
the main use-case. So it has to be optional. It can of course be done but
requires some work and will be slightly complex.

Feel free to write a blueprint about with with some more detail.

best regards,

Lars


On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 5:50 PM, Rodolfo Melia <rmelia@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Is the attribute likely to be added to the mix?
> - the logic that IPPF uses for setting the maximum value is different for
> Attribute 1 and Attribute 2 of a data value.
>
> R
>
> *Rodolfo Meliá*
> *Principal  |  *rmelia@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Skype: rod.melia  |  +44 777 576 4090  |  +1 708 872 7636
> www.knowming.com
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 4:48 PM, Lars Helge Øverland <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
>> The minmax dataelement values are set by:
>>
>> - data element
>> - org unit
>> - category option combo
>>
>> -----
>>
>>
>>
>> Lars
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Rodolfo Melia <rmelia@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks everyone. It is good to understand how the max/min is calculated
>>> in DHIS (the documentation should be updated with the content of this
>>> email). We definitely need other ways to set min/ max values - my case has
>>> a specific logic, which needs to be implemented via SQL, until there is a
>>> way to push these values via the API.
>>>
>>> Can I confirm that the Min/ Max are set by
>>> - Data Element
>>> - Org Unit
>>> - Cat Combo
>>> - Attribute Combo?
>>>
>>>
>>> R
>>>
>>> *Rodolfo Meliá*
>>> *Principal  |  *rmelia@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Skype: rod.melia  |  +44 777 576 4090  |  +1 708 872 7636
>>> www.knowming.com
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Calle Hedberg <calle.hedberg@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> "Calle is right here - we do average, then calculate std dev and set
>>>> the upper and lower bounds for each value. We use data from ALL
>>>> available time periods to calculate this (period org unit, data element,
>>>> option combo)."
>>>>
>>>> Here and there and back again :-)
>>>>
>>>> So I wasn't off the reservation, then. We have used the normal
>>>> distribution like this in DHIS 1.x for around 17 years, and it fits the
>>>> majority of data elements. In general, this distribution model handles
>>>> random outbreaks and disruptions reasonably well, since the impact of such
>>>> outliers are dampened. Data elements representing conditions or services
>>>> with strong seasonal variation do not fit so well, and some very particular
>>>> issues like "Male condoms distributed" tend to vary so much that the
>>>> min/max is generally disregarded (outliers here also matter a lot less -
>>>> when you distribute 1-2 billion condoms annually, an error of a few
>>>> thousand does not matter). In DHIS 1.4 there is also a function for setting
>>>> absolute min-max values - most typically used for data elements where e.g.
>>>> only 0 and 1 are valid values. For such cases, statistically calculating
>>>> min-max is obviously irrelevant.
>>>>
>>>> I don't like the use of ALL available time periods, though, since a
>>>> large number of health facilities will see significant changes in their
>>>> patient mix and patient numbers over let us say a 10 year period. We have
>>>> found that 12-18 months provide a good compromise.
>>>>
>>>> So there are still some room for improvement.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Calle
>>>>
>>>> On 20 April 2015 at 16:15, Jason Pickering <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Good. I probably should have known that already, thus why I had to do
>>>>> some statistical analysis outside of DHIS2 to actually calculate reasonable
>>>>> min max. A quick check of the validity of a normal distribution, can be
>>>>> with the skewness and kurtosis , which provide a idea of how "tilted"  a
>>>>> given distribution is.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.dhis2.org/doc/snapshot/en/developer/html/apas06.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, support for import via the API would be good.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Jason
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 16:06 Lars Helge Øverland <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi there,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Calle is right here - we do average, then calculate std dev and set
>>>>>> the upper and lower bounds for each value.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We use data from ALL available time periods to calculate this (period
>>>>>> org unit, data element, option combo)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mind you we should not really debate whether to use standard
>>>>>> deviations or not, rather if we should support additional _distributions_
>>>>>> to better handle different kinds of data. We currently use the normal
>>>>>> distribution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution>.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rodolfo - supporting min-max in the Web API is a good idea to allow
>>>>>> for third-party tools - feel free to write a blueprint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lars
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *******************************************
>>>>
>>>> Calle Hedberg
>>>>
>>>> 46D Alma Road, 7700 Rosebank, SOUTH AFRICA
>>>>
>>>> Tel/fax (home): +27-21-685-6472
>>>>
>>>> Cell: +27-82-853-5352
>>>>
>>>> Iridium SatPhone: +8816-315-19274
>>>>
>>>> Email: calle.hedberg@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> Skype: calle_hedberg
>>>>
>>>> *******************************************
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>