dhis2-users team mailing list archive

[Jason Pickering <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx>]

The major difference between the BSD and LGPL (which is not what the terms
we are discussing here) is the BSD license is somewhat more permissive. It
basically states here is the source code, do what you want with it, but we
make no warranties whatsoever. If people want to take the DHIS2 source
code, make modifications to it, and sell it as a closed source application,
then it is totally possible to do this, providing the other terms and
conditions are met, namely that the copyright notices are kept in the
binary form, which as far as I know of, are not present at all in DHIS2. Of
course if you are using the LGPL in DHIS 1.4, this also allows for
commercial derivatives, provided that the parts subject to LGPL are also
released (while the proprietary parts could be closed sorce)  So, not
really sure why people could not modify either DHIS software products and
release them commercially, if one so wanted.

For the hisp.org site however, there are a number of products which are
clearly not "HISP"'s, such as the Oracle JDK, which is subject to its own
terms of download and redistribution , which are  not mentioned at all on
hisp.org, which could be very problematic. For the DHIS2 website, HISP
seems to be the party of interest, while DHIS2 is copyrighted by the
University of Oslo. The link between the two, as well as the legal status
of HISP and its ability to enforce the terms of use in Norway or elsewhere,
are not clear. So, it may make sense to have some "lawyer types" look
through this stuff, otherwise, it is just mumbo-jumbo.

Regards,
Jason


On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Calle Hedberg <calle.hedberg@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> Hi
>
> and yes - while it does not really make sense to change our current LGPL
> license since DHIS 1.x is being phased out in any case, I think HISP-SA
> should/will largely use the same licenses as HISP-UiO for the future.
> Conceptually, there's no significant difference from what I can see.
>
> Regards
> Calle
>
> On 2 November 2014 15:07, Calle Hedberg <calle.hedberg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Bob/Than,
>>
>> A bit amusing that you do find stuff like that. probably just reflect
>> that different people think differently, and that we have never had a
>> lawyer-type going through all of it and streamline.
>>
>> Conceptually, my understanding has always been that all our software and
>> materials are free for people to download, re-distribute, and modify - as
>> long as the original license etc follows it, and as long as people are not
>> ABUSING it for commercial gain (as in selling the software to somebody who
>> does not know it's FOSS - strange, but that kind of thing CAN happen just
>> like e.g. a student or an author might copycat materials and present them
>> as his/her own).
>>
>> That said, my (limited) understanding of the law is that in order for you
>> to enforce such a license, you HAVE to establish COPYRIGHT over said
>> software and materials. So you are basically saying that "this
>> software/materials is OUR copyright because we have developed them - and we
>> choose to allow anybody to download them, use them, re-distribute them, and
>> use them for further development"
>>
>> Conceptually very similar to the historic standards for any scientific
>> publication - all use are encouraged EXCEPT that of copy-cat-ing
>> (presenting it as your own), including attempting to disprove the content.
>>
>> Regards
>> Calle
>>
>> On 2 November 2014 14:35, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Calle
>>>
>>> Thanks for clarification.
>>>
>>> But I think maybe you still could fix this on the terms of use page on
>>> the website, which doesn't indicate anything about LGPL at all.  It seems
>>> to me that you could change those terms to apply to the non-software
>>> materials on the website, if that is really your intent.  Again something
>>> like a creative commons licence might be easier than making up all these
>>> terms yourselves.  Then maybe just indicate the software licence(s) on the
>>> downloads page.  This would be clearer.
>>>
>>> We have all our (dhis2.org) documentation released under a GNU Free
>>> documentation licence.
>>>
>>> Ahhhhhhh.  I just noticed that the dhis2.org also has exactly the same
>>> dreaded "terms of use" page : https://www.dhis2.org/termsofuse.  Have
>>> no idea where that came from.  That is confusing and should be changed.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> On 1 November 2014 21:08, Calle Hedberg <calle.hedberg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> We've always used the so called "Lesser GPL" license for 1.x version of
>>>> the DHIS - this also allows any type of derivate software (including
>>>> commercial ones) AS LONG AS THE ORIGINAL SOFTWARE REMAIN FOSS AND THE
>>>> ORIGINAL SOFTWARE IS PACKAGED WITH THE LICENSE.
>>>>
>>>> So the reference to "cannot be used for commercial purposes" refers to
>>>> the original software, not significant derivatives. We've never had a
>>>> problem with any commercial entity trying to "hi-jack" the software,
>>>> though, and I think it is a very unlikely scenario - and even less likely
>>>> with DHIS2 because by now every potential customer/user knows it's FOSS.
>>>>
>>>> What IS possible at some stage is that a commercial software company
>>>> would develop some sophisticated add-on package and sell that - we've seen
>>>> a number of those with e.g. PostgreSQL, for instance. And we don't have a
>>>> problem with that.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Calle
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1 November 2014 18:41, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Agree this is a bit confusing.  I am assuming you read this here:
>>>>> http://hisp.org/html/policies.htm#terms
>>>>>
>>>>> This is actually the HISP South Africa web site and it looks like
>>>>> these are conditions which they are applying to the dhis 1.4 software.
>>>>> Given that they now also support v2 they should really update this.  I
>>>>> think it reflects some previous reality.
>>>>>
>>>>> It has no effect on the dhis2 software which you download from
>>>>> dhis2.org.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1 November 2014 16:22, Ngoc Thanh Nguyen <
>>>>> thanh.hispvietnam@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DHIS2 is licensed as BSD which means that one can customize,
>>>>>> redistribute, and use it for any purposes (commercial or non-commercial)
>>>>>> given that the BSD copyright text are retained.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, in HISP website it says that materials (include software) on
>>>>>> the website can not be used for commercial or non-commercial purpose.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it a conflict?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Use License
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a. Permission is granted to temporarily download one copy of the
>>>>>> materials (information or software) on HISP's web site for personal,
>>>>>> non-commercial transitory viewing only. This is the grant of a license, not
>>>>>> a transfer of title, and under this license you may not:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    - modify or copy the materials;
>>>>>>    - use the materials for any commercial purpose, or for any public
>>>>>>    display (commercial or non-commercial);
>>>>>>    - attempt to decompile or reverse engineer any software contained
>>>>>>    on HISP's web site;
>>>>>>    - remove any copyright or other proprietary notations from the
>>>>>>    materials; or
>>>>>>    - transfer the materials to another person or "mirror" the
>>>>>>    materials on any other server.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
>>>>>> Post to     : dhis2-devs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
>>>>> Post to     : dhis2-devs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *******************************************
>>>>
>>>> Calle Hedberg
>>>>
>>>> 46D Alma Road, 7700 Rosebank, SOUTH AFRICA
>>>>
>>>> Tel/fax (home): +27-21-685-6472
>>>>
>>>> Cell: +27-82-853-5352
>>>>
>>>> Iridium SatPhone: +8816-315-19274
>>>>
>>>> Email: calle.hedberg@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> Skype: calle_hedberg
>>>>
>>>> *******************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *******************************************
>>
>> Calle Hedberg
>>
>> 46D Alma Road, 7700 Rosebank, SOUTH AFRICA
>>
>> Tel/fax (home): +27-21-685-6472
>>
>> Cell: +27-82-853-5352
>>
>> Iridium SatPhone: +8816-315-19274
>>
>> Email: calle.hedberg@xxxxxxxxx
>>
>> Skype: calle_hedberg
>>
>> *******************************************
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *******************************************
>
> Calle Hedberg
>
> 46D Alma Road, 7700 Rosebank, SOUTH AFRICA
>
> Tel/fax (home): +27-21-685-6472
>
> Cell: +27-82-853-5352
>
> Iridium SatPhone: +8816-315-19274
>
> Email: calle.hedberg@xxxxxxxxx
>
> Skype: calle_hedberg
>
> *******************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
> Post to     : dhis2-devs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Jason P. Pickering
email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
tel:+46764147049