kernel-packages team mailing list archive

[teo1978 <teo8976@xxxxxxxxx>]

> Bugs don't expire because they are not initially reported on the
latest BIOS. They expire because they remain in the Incomplete Status
for too long.

Don't play stupid, please. I know they expire because they remain in the
incomplete status. The wrong policy I'm talking about is that  they are
systematically put in the "incomplete" status every time they are
reported with an outdated bios. And that's what eventually causes them
to expire, because me updating the bios is just not going to happen
(until it can be done easily and safely in Ubuntu).


> If linux upstream thinks you have a bug due to an outdated BIOS...

The problem here is that bugs aren't put in the incomplete status
because somebody upstream actually "thinks" the bug is due to an outdate
BIOS, nor even because there is the slightest reason to suspect that,
but simply because the bios is not updated. That is, it is ASSUMED that
every bug that is reported under an outdated bios is due to the outdated
bios. That's a ridiculous assumption. If one had to assume something
(until any evidence is found), it would be safer to assume the exact
opposite, as that has much more chances to be the case (i.e. the bug be
in the OS).

If the goal is to fix the highest number of bugs, to have Ubuntu work
better, to provide a better UX, and to support the widest set of
hardware, this strategy is obiously wrong.

The requirement to update the BIOS should be made only when there is a
strong reason to suspect that the outdated bios is related.

And note that EVEN in the extremely unlikely case that the bug exists
only on the outdated bios, that does not necessarily mean that the bug
is DUE to a bug in the bios. The bug may be just triggered by some
"legitimate" (i.e. non-buggy) characteristic in the bios that has been
removed in the latest version, hence not triggering the bug in the OS
any more, which doesn't make it less of a bug.


Also note that I reported this bug against Linux just because I have no idea what package it may belong to. This happens pretty often to me, and I guess to many other users, because ¿how on earth is an end user supposed to figure out what package a bug belongs to? (no need to reply with a link to the guide, I already read that, it doesn't help in most cases)

So, because of this policy of marking as incomplete every linux bug that
happens to be reported on outdated bios, bugs like this don't even reach
the stage where somebody more knowleadgeable than the reporter targets
it to the correct package.


> While I haven't surveyed all the vendors in a while, I'm not presently aware of vendors explicitly providing in-Ubuntu/(other linux vendor) methods of updating the BIOS.

That's exactly why you can't depend on bios updates to discard bug reports. Whether or not that depends solely on vendors, that makes updating BIOS for Ubuntu users risky and complicated. I won't take all the time to create another OS's boot disk and do all that stuff, and especially the risk to brick my computer, just to check whether or not a bug I've found in Ubuntu disappears, when there's a 0.0000001% chance that that may happen.
So, while the reality remains that updating the BIOS for an Ubuntu user is complicated as hell, putting that "barreer" to bug reports (i.e. requiring bios update before a bug report is taken into consideration) means:
- failing to investigate and fix a huge lot of bugs that actually would turn out to be bugs in the OS (whether it's Linux or whatever other component of Ubuntu), letting them remain unfixed for ages
- and yes, perhaps in a ridiculously small percentage of cases, save developers the unnecessary work to triage an issue that is actually due to a bug in the BIOS


> Hence, it is expected you update your BIOS. The more time you spend complaining about updating, instead of either updating or asking for help on doing so, is just causing a longer and longer delay of your problem being resolved.

Padon, "MY" problem?
It's not like  I'm complaining for some product I've bought, nor is it like I'm asking for a support which I may get if I deserve it, or if I've done my job.
 
The bug affects the community of users.
I simply happen to be one person who found it and reported it. I could do a greater effort, that's true, I could update my bios and add that tiny, most-probably-insignificant bit of information by confirming the bug on the newer bios. I could as well learn C/C++ programming and the Linux code and help fix it, for that matter. That's not the case. I reported the issue, that's how far I can go.

Now you can choose whether to use that information to try to improve Ubuntu, or discard it for a silly reason. You're choosing the second.
That is causing a longer and longer delay of everybody's problem being solved.


Regarding bios updates being offered only for other OSes by vendors.
There has been a long history of hardware vendors not giving proper support for linux. And of the linux community filling that gap by reverse-engineering vendor's software (drivers and the like) for other OSes and writing the equivalent for Linux.

Perhaps something like that can be done for bios updates?

-- 
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Kernel
Packages, which is subscribed to linux in Ubuntu.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1335409

Title:
  [Acer Aspire V3-571G] Mousepad stopped working

Status in “linux” package in Ubuntu:
  Expired

Bug description:
  I disconnected the external usb mouse and keyboard from my laptop, and
  the builtin mousepad has stopped working. It doesn't respond to either
  movement nor cliks.

  I don't have any software installed to disable the mousepad when the
  external mouse is connected. The mousepad usually does works whether
  or not the external usb mouse is connected.

  ProblemType: Bug
  DistroRelease: Ubuntu 14.04
  Package: linux-image-3.13.0-29-generic 3.13.0-29.53
  ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 3.13.0-29.53-generic 3.13.11.2
  Uname: Linux 3.13.0-29-generic x86_64
  ApportVersion: 2.14.1-0ubuntu3.2
  Architecture: amd64
  AudioDevicesInUse:
   USER        PID ACCESS COMMAND
   /dev/snd/controlC0:  teo        2219 F.... pulseaudio
  CurrentDesktop: Unity
  Date: Sat Jun 28 13:06:03 2014
  HibernationDevice: RESUME=UUID=ff7e702a-a05a-47fd-8c14-551e81f9e9e3
  InstallationDate: Installed on 2013-10-11 (259 days ago)
  InstallationMedia: Ubuntu 13.04 "Raring Ringtail" - Release amd64 (20130424)
  MachineType: Acer Aspire V3-571G
  ProcFB: 0 inteldrmfb
  ProcKernelCmdLine: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-3.13.0-29-generic.efi.signed root=UUID=5830b30e-69e8-4bb4-8a2b-bc2b43c7414a ro quiet splash vt.handoff=7
  RelatedPackageVersions:
   linux-restricted-modules-3.13.0-29-generic N/A
   linux-backports-modules-3.13.0-29-generic  N/A
   linux-firmware                             1.127.4
  SourcePackage: linux
  UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to trusty on 2014-05-24 (34 days ago)
  dmi.bios.date: 10/15/2012
  dmi.bios.vendor: Acer
  dmi.bios.version: V2.07
  dmi.board.asset.tag: Type2 - Board Asset Tag
  dmi.board.name: VA50_HC_CR
  dmi.board.vendor: Acer
  dmi.board.version: Type2 - Board Version
  dmi.chassis.type: 10
  dmi.chassis.vendor: Acer
  dmi.chassis.version: V2.07
  dmi.modalias: dmi:bvnAcer:bvrV2.07:bd10/15/2012:svnAcer:pnAspireV3-571G:pvrV2.07:rvnAcer:rnVA50_HC_CR:rvrType2-BoardVersion:cvnAcer:ct10:cvrV2.07:
  dmi.product.name: Aspire V3-571G
  dmi.product.version: V2.07
  dmi.sys.vendor: Acer

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