kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Miguel Angel Ajo Pelayo <miguelangel@xxxxxxx>]

Hi Lázló,

   It's me the webserver maintainer right now. The problems
come from confluence taking too many resources from it's openvz container
(it's a OS level linux virtual machine).

   Well, that was the usual problem until now, but last time now resource
was
exhausted and yet it hanged up.

   Could you please setup a pingdom anywhere to my account
miguelangel@xxxxxxx ?

   This way next time I could go fast and find where the problem is exactly.



2013/7/25 László Monda <laci@xxxxxxxx>

> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Adam Wolf
> <adamwolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Mac and Windows are getting there.  I fully expect that by the end of
> 2013,
> > Kicad'll have daily builds for a few varieties of Linux, OS X, and
> Windows.
>
> Excellent news, Adam!
>
> It'd be great to create a download page for the daily releases
> featuring the daily download links along with daily commits in an
> easy-to-read manner.  Of course this will truly make sense when all
> the platform-specific builds will be ready.
>
> Speaking of the site, it's down.  Am I right that it's pretty usual?
> I'd like to contact with whoever is responsible and offer my help.  As
> a first step Pingdom should be set up to get notified.
>
> Just instructed Netcraft to monitor site uptime:
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kicad-pcb.org
>
> > I can't say I'm entirely pleased that Dick thinks the package maintainers
> > should simply retire. Could you clarify , Dick?
> >
> > Adam Wolf
> > Wayne and Layne LLC
> >
> > On Jul 25, 2013 4:27 AM, "László Monda" <laci@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 4:28 AM, Alex G. <mr.nuke.me@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> > On 07/24/2013 08:51 PM, Dick Hollenbeck wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Jul 24, 2013 4:26 PM, "Alex G." <mr.nuke.me@xxxxxxxxx
> >> >> <mailto:mr.nuke.me@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 07/24/2013 03:41 PM, Dick Hollenbeck wrote:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > On Jul 24, 2013 3:05 PM, "Alex G." <mr.nuke.me@xxxxxxxxx
> >> >> <mailto:mr.nuke.me@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> P.S. I can't emphasize enough how much I like the new rendering
> >> >>> >> modes.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > To hear this is good news, I have yet to spend this time to review
> >> >>> > the
> >> >>> > intermediary work.  But I am extremely happy to hear that someone
> >> >>> > finds
> >> >>> > this massive body of work promising.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I think your opinion of "releases" may be overrated however.  What
> >> >>> > is a
> >> >>> > release wrt kicad?  Its fools gold IMO. Just use your own build,
> you
> >> >>> > obviously know how to build it.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> A "release" or "stable branch" in distro packager terms is code that
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> developers, to the best of their ability certify is stable and good
> >> >>> for
> >> >>> production use. In fact distros have specific guidelines about not
> >> >>> packaging "development" code. What this usually means is distros
> want
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> tarball without the terms "rc", "nightly", "devel", "alpha", "beta",
> >> >>> etc
> >> >>> (a release). If that is not available, distros are also willing to
> >> >>> accept a snapshot of the repository, but strongly encourage
> >> >>> (gun-aimed-to-your-head type encouragement) a "stable" branch is
> >> >>> packaged.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> What this usually means is, as long as GAL is just another branch,
> it
> >> >>> won't get into the hands of the majority of users.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> There are also a few "things" that make merging GAL non-trivial.
> First
> >> >>> of all, the tools do not (yet) work in OpenGL/Cairo modes. This will
> >> >>> require a smarte(er) merge strategy. In merge ASCII art, it would
> look
> >> >>> something like:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>  - (devel)     |-----------------------------------*----------------
> >> >>>                |                                  /
> >> >>>  - (gal_merge) |      *---(make tools work, etc) *
> >> >>>                |     /
> >> >>>  - (gal)       |----*------(continue normal GAL cycle)-------------
> >> >>>
> >> >>> (You'll need to read this in monospace for it to make sense)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Now this requires some work. I am not qualified to operate the Kicad
> >> >>> source tree, but I'm willing to bet it should be doable in a
> >> >>> reasonable
> >> >>> timeframe.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Is it worth it? I vote "yes".
> >> >>
> >> >> Distro kicad  packages are not even worth the effort in several of
> the
> >> >> distros, they are so far behind current code as to be irrelevant for
> a
> >> >> serious kicad user.
> >> >>
> >> > DISCLAIMER: Skip to third paragraph if you are not interested in
> >> > discussions about releases. I won't mind.
> >> > DISCLAIMER2: I'm perfectly fine with the current no-release
> philosophy.
> >> >
> >> > And distro packages being so far behind is partly due to the
> >> > release-less philosophy. First of all you lose all the bells and
> >> > whistles of a release (blog posts, articles, users seeing a higher
> >> > number). You lose, all the publicity, and you lose the users saying
> "My
> >> > kicad is newer than yours", and hence you lose pressure on the
> packagers
> >> > to update. There's no concept of newness. A Kicad branch from two
> years
> >> > ago is just as good as today's Kicad (1) (exceptions exist). I speak
> >> > from the perspective of a packager who is not necessarily a "serious
> >> > kicad user". Not all packagers are.
> >>
> >> PR is one of the strongest reasons, I believe.  Something like
> >> http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges is badly needed for KiCad
> >> because users have zero high-level visibility regarding new features.
> >> For example the middle button panning feature might seem like a minor
> >> change development-wise but it's extremely useful for users.
> >>
> >> I agree that the no release philosophy directly contributes to
> >> outdated packages on distros but seeing the resistance on the
> >> development side this can't be expected to change.  A part of me can
> >> understand it because backporting shit is no fun.
> >>
> >> As an alternative it'd be extremely useful to provide daily releases
> >> to the community.  Something like what Adam Wolf does but for all the
> >> 3 major platforms.  The version string could be updated to the current
> >> day, this way users could see who runs the most recent version.  This
> >> and the news section could boost adoption significantly.
> >>
> >> > Another thing to keep in mind is packager lazyness may hurt Kicad. I
> >> > often hear things like "I can't use kicad because it has [this] and
> >> > [that] problem; kicad sucks [blablabla]", when the problem they
> describe
> >> > had been fixed months or even years ago.
> >> >
> >> > *** Third paragraph: ***
> >> >
> >> > The release discussion aside, what I was focusing on in the previous
> >> > email was getting kicad GAL into mainline and getting it to be fully
> >> > functional -- where "getting" is to be understood as "someone please
> >> > come do this". I define fully-functional as being able to design a
> board
> >> > in the new rendering modes. If you'll try laying a track in
> non-default
> >> > mode you'll see what I'm saying.
> >> >
> >> >> You cannot vote action in this project,
> >> >> [...]
> >> >> I can tell you now that I will never make a single
> >> >> commit to the stable branch, ever.
> >> >>
> >> > Not what I was voting on. Anyhow, I withdraw my (invalid) vote.
> >> >
> >> > Anyway, sorry to raise the undead army.
> >> >
> >> > Peace out!
> >> > Alex
> >> >
> >> > (1) This is a great thing actually. It demonstrates the quality of the
> >> > Kicad code base is very high
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >> > Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> László Monda <http://monda.hu>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
> --
> László Monda <http://monda.hu>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>



-- 

Miguel Angel Ajo Pelayo
http://www.nbee.es
+34 636 52 25 69
skype: ajoajoajo