kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Carl Poirier <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Adam,

Indeed, those who want to be sure nothing changes until they want so are
better to make a local copy. With the new Footprint Libraries Wizard, users
are just a few clicks away from it with the checkbox "Save a local copy
to". Using the libraries directly from Github is bleeding-edge, but as you
said the problem arises from the fact that we have symbols installed
locally and footprints fetched from Github. If both are handled the same
way, either way it is, it will be fine. And again this causes problems only
for aspects of libraries that have to be in sync - such as pin numbers. The
other things that have to be in sync are the 3D models. That's why many
folks, including me, have suggested
<https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg14793.html> to move the 3D
model inside the .pretty library. Maybe it could be done elegantly, but
unfortunately I'm not the one who has enough time to put in this.

As for the other libraries, we're slowly getting to a stable and consistent
state. Besides eradicating the special.lib library, I can't think of
another disruptive change that will happen soon. I'm not saying there will
be none, just that there are none planned. We go as our time permits.

As for why people would use KiCad's libraries, I'd say because they can be
assured at least two librarians go over a suggested change to iron out
errors. Also because new parts are constantly thrown into the mix as well
so the libraries are getting more complete over time. As for the quality of
the pre-github era libraries, nothing can be vouched. We're fixing things
as we find them. What's great is that with Github, it's very easy for those
people in doubt about KiCad's libraries to contribute and make them better
if they think there is room for it.

I should have warned in advance here for this change specifically to make
sure everyone was aware. I should have not relied on the fact that no one
disagreed days ago about having disruptive changes in general. Besides
that, I'm not sure what more could have been done.

Regards,

Carl

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 8:43 PM, Adam Wolf <adamwolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> Carl,
>
> I have had multiple people contact me today saying, "Why would I ever use
> KiCad's libraries again?"
>
> I had no idea before your email today that diodes were going to change,
> and I follow the dev list daily, and I'm the packager for the OS X
> nightlies.
>
> We're in this together.  I don't have time to check yet another place for
> KiCad changes.
>
> After I think about this some more, I'm going to start another thread on
> what this means for the OS X nightlies.  By having half the data burned in,
> and half the data updated live, this is going to continue to happen.
> People are going to make bad boards, and if I would have bundled the
> footprints with the nightlies and not made Github the default, this
> wouldn't have happened.
>
> Most of the other packages are like this, right?
>
> Adam Wolf
>
> Cofounder and Engineer
>
> Wayne and Layne, LLC
>
> (resending from an email that can post to kicad-dev...)
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Adam Wolf <adamwwolf@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Carl,
>>
>> I have had multiple people contact me today saying, "Why would I ever use
>> KiCad's libraries again?"
>>
>> I had no idea before your email today that diodes were going to change,
>> and I follow the dev list daily, and I'm the packager for the OS X
>> nightlies.
>>
>> We're in this together.  I don't have time to check yet another place for
>> KiCad changes.
>>
>> After I think about this some more, I'm going to start another thread on
>> what this means for the OS X nightlies.  By having half the data burned in,
>> and half the data updated live, this is going to continue to happen.
>> People are going to make bad boards, and if I would have bundled the
>> footprints with the nightlies and not made Github the default, this
>> wouldn't have happened.
>>
>> Most of the other packages are like this, right?
>>
>> Adam Wolf
>>
>> Cofounder and Engineer
>>
>> Wayne and Layne, LLC
>>
>> On Apr 24, 2015 7:01 PM, "Carl Poirier" <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Then you should have come by and discussed the matter on Github. The
>>> issues and pull requests about the diodes had been open for a while now and
>>> open for comments. To get updates in time about the changes proposed, I
>>> suggest you watch this repository
>>> <https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-library>.
>>>
>>> If you have suggestions for the next similar situation, I'm listening.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:55 PM, Garth Corral <gcorral@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don’t object to what you’re doing, just how it’s being done.  You
>>>> don’t think this case is just a little bit special?  Last time things were
>>>> pretty obviously broken with the change, in this case they’re not.  You’ve
>>>> swapped out a symbol for something that’s basically the same except, oh, by
>>>> the way, all your diodes are reversed.  Am I misunderstanding this change?
>>>> Is this not true?
>>>>
>>>> Garth
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 24, 2015, at 4:34 PM, Carl Poirier <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> KiCad's libraries were filled without any rules throughout time. All
>>>> these changes are necessary to have something consistent. Kerusey Karyu
>>>> warned people one month ago on the mailing list
>>>> <https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg17476.html> that we
>>>> were in the process of moving things around. No one complained. Now why
>>>> when we take action people wake up all of a sudden?
>>>>
>>>> The sooner we get things straight, the better it is. If we wait too
>>>> much, it will be too late. Before issuing the stable release sounds like an
>>>> appropriate moment to land the disruptive changes.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, I'm about to eradicate the special.lib library, as planned for now
>>>> over one month <https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-library/issues/153>, a
>>>> great initiative taken by Kerusey.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Carl
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:21 PM, Garth Corral <gcorral@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This plan to deprecate the old diode type seems… uh... poorly thought
>>>>> out.  Yanking these out from under everyone and every project in exiistence
>>>>> and then sending out a message that says, “hey, guess what I did?” doesn’t
>>>>> seem like the best way to handle this.  It is most certainly not the way to
>>>>> win converts to kicad.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Garth
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 24, 2015, at 2:31 PM, Carl Poirier <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thiadmer, your proposal would require to duplicate every .pretty
>>>>> repository for every stable release. And I believe the schematics won't
>>>>> change because of the cache.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another solution would be to modify the github plugin to fetch a
>>>>> branch in particular instead of the master. Then, we could create one
>>>>> branch in each .pretty repository that would remain in the state at the
>>>>> time of the stable release.
>>>>>
>>>>> That, or we ship the stable release with local .pretty repositories as
>>>>> well.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Thiadmer Riemersma <
>>>>> thiadmer.riemersma@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> For the stable release, I would vote for backward compatibility: have
>>>>>> "deprecated" libraries with the diodes as they are right now (footprints +
>>>>>> symbols), plus "standards-compliant" libraries with the cathode at pin 1
>>>>>> and the anode at pin 2. It would not be good if old schematics change just
>>>>>> because they are loaded in a new version of KiCad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:31 PM, Carl Poirier <
>>>>>> carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe this could be implemented for the stable release.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Bob Gustafson <bobgus@xxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Sounds professional.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob G
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 04/24/2015 12:24 PM, Adam Wolf wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For future things like this, what do people think of a webview that
>>>>>>>> pops up on startup after checking a site for alerts?
>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2015 12:14 PM, "Carl Poirier" <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All installations need a local kicad-library, not just OS X. They
>>>>>>>>> are all in the same situation. The next OS X nightly will be good if you
>>>>>>>>> pull the latest kicad-libary for the build.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Kerusey Karyu will announce the change on the users group on
>>>>>>>>> Yahoo to warn people. If anyone has an account and wants to forward my
>>>>>>>>> message before he does, feel free to do so.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Adam Wolf <
>>>>>>>>> adamwolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hmm.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So the OSX builds use Github by default for footprints, and have
>>>>>>>>>> symbols "baked in" at build time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Every OS X nightly build is going to produce bad boards, and
>>>>>>>>>> there's no way to tell users to update or inform them about this change
>>>>>>>>>> through the program at all.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I really wish I would have known about this earlier.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Adam Wolf
>>>>>>>>>> Cofounder and Engineer
>>>>>>>>>> Wayne and Layne
>>>>>>>>>>  On Apr 24, 2015 11:42 AM, "Carl Poirier" <
>>>>>>>>>> carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Hi folks,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  This is simply to warn you that all diodes in KiCad's
>>>>>>>>>>> libraries have seen their pin numbers swapped. This is to be in line with
>>>>>>>>>>> most other software and the IPC standard as well, which states that cathode
>>>>>>>>>>> should be pin 1. This work is courtesy of the newest librarian, Ricardo
>>>>>>>>>>> Crudo.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  If you are using Github libraries directly, the only thing you
>>>>>>>>>>> will have left to do is update your schematic libraries to the latest
>>>>>>>>>>> revision of https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-library before
>>>>>>>>>>> continuing your work. If you have a local copy of the footprint
>>>>>>>>>>> repositories, then when you are ready you will be able to pull the changes
>>>>>>>>>>> for both the schematic libraries and the affected footprint libraries:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  1. Diodes_SMD.pretty
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/KiCad/Diodes_SMD.pretty>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Diodes_ThroughHole.pretty
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/KiCad/Diodes_ThroughHole.pretty>
>>>>>>>>>>> 3. LEDs.pretty <https://github.com/KiCad/LEDs.pretty>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Thank you for your understanding and sorry for the
>>>>>>>>>>> inconvenience.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Carl Poirier
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>