kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Carl Poirier <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>]

What if we have a "Never show on startup" checkbox LOL.

No seriously, this indeed would be great for not only libraries but
anything else. The website will need a section for the news as well, which
currently from what I see doesn't have.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Adam Wolf <adamwolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> Carl and other library folks,
>
> I understand you had to make the change, and I'm certain it took hard work
> to make everything match, and I'm glad that the libraries are better now,
> but I hate the fact that many, many users will never be notified of this
> board-breaking change, and we have absolutely no way of notifying them.
>
> Rather than make a github-plugin specific change that will only alert
> users about changes in footprints, I think we should see if we can quickly
> code a dialog that checks a location on kicad-pcb.org for news, and
> display it on KiCad startup by default if it has changed.  I would like to
> get this in before the stable release, but I know we're already in feature
> freeze.  Wayne, what do you think?
>
> Adam Wolf
> Cofounder and Engineer
> Wayne and Layne, LLC
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Carl Poirier <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Adam,
>>
>> Indeed, those who want to be sure nothing changes until they want so are
>> better to make a local copy. With the new Footprint Libraries Wizard, users
>> are just a few clicks away from it with the checkbox "Save a local copy
>> to". Using the libraries directly from Github is bleeding-edge, but as you
>> said the problem arises from the fact that we have symbols installed
>> locally and footprints fetched from Github. If both are handled the same
>> way, either way it is, it will be fine. And again this causes problems only
>> for aspects of libraries that have to be in sync - such as pin numbers. The
>> other things that have to be in sync are the 3D models. That's why many
>> folks, including me, have suggested
>> <https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg14793.html> to move the
>> 3D model inside the .pretty library. Maybe it could be done elegantly, but
>> unfortunately I'm not the one who has enough time to put in this.
>>
>> As for the other libraries, we're slowly getting to a stable and
>> consistent state. Besides eradicating the special.lib library, I can't
>> think of another disruptive change that will happen soon. I'm not saying
>> there will be none, just that there are none planned. We go as our time
>> permits.
>>
>> As for why people would use KiCad's libraries, I'd say because they can
>> be assured at least two librarians go over a suggested change to iron out
>> errors. Also because new parts are constantly thrown into the mix as well
>> so the libraries are getting more complete over time. As for the quality of
>> the pre-github era libraries, nothing can be vouched. We're fixing things
>> as we find them. What's great is that with Github, it's very easy for those
>> people in doubt about KiCad's libraries to contribute and make them better
>> if they think there is room for it.
>>
>> I should have warned in advance here for this change specifically to make
>> sure everyone was aware. I should have not relied on the fact that no one
>> disagreed days ago about having disruptive changes in general. Besides
>> that, I'm not sure what more could have been done.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 8:43 PM, Adam Wolf <adamwolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Carl,
>>>
>>> I have had multiple people contact me today saying, "Why would I ever
>>> use KiCad's libraries again?"
>>>
>>> I had no idea before your email today that diodes were going to change,
>>> and I follow the dev list daily, and I'm the packager for the OS X
>>> nightlies.
>>>
>>> We're in this together.  I don't have time to check yet another place
>>> for KiCad changes.
>>>
>>> After I think about this some more, I'm going to start another thread on
>>> what this means for the OS X nightlies.  By having half the data burned in,
>>> and half the data updated live, this is going to continue to happen.
>>> People are going to make bad boards, and if I would have bundled the
>>> footprints with the nightlies and not made Github the default, this
>>> wouldn't have happened.
>>>
>>> Most of the other packages are like this, right?
>>>
>>> Adam Wolf
>>>
>>> Cofounder and Engineer
>>>
>>> Wayne and Layne, LLC
>>>
>>> (resending from an email that can post to kicad-dev...)
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Adam Wolf <adamwwolf@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carl,
>>>>
>>>> I have had multiple people contact me today saying, "Why would I ever
>>>> use KiCad's libraries again?"
>>>>
>>>> I had no idea before your email today that diodes were going to change,
>>>> and I follow the dev list daily, and I'm the packager for the OS X
>>>> nightlies.
>>>>
>>>> We're in this together.  I don't have time to check yet another place
>>>> for KiCad changes.
>>>>
>>>> After I think about this some more, I'm going to start another thread
>>>> on what this means for the OS X nightlies.  By having half the data burned
>>>> in, and half the data updated live, this is going to continue to happen.
>>>> People are going to make bad boards, and if I would have bundled the
>>>> footprints with the nightlies and not made Github the default, this
>>>> wouldn't have happened.
>>>>
>>>> Most of the other packages are like this, right?
>>>>
>>>> Adam Wolf
>>>>
>>>> Cofounder and Engineer
>>>>
>>>> Wayne and Layne, LLC
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 24, 2015 7:01 PM, "Carl Poirier" <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Then you should have come by and discussed the matter on Github. The
>>>>> issues and pull requests about the diodes had been open for a while now and
>>>>> open for comments. To get updates in time about the changes proposed, I
>>>>> suggest you watch this repository
>>>>> <https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-library>.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have suggestions for the next similar situation, I'm listening.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:55 PM, Garth Corral <gcorral@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don’t object to what you’re doing, just how it’s being done.  You
>>>>>> don’t think this case is just a little bit special?  Last time things were
>>>>>> pretty obviously broken with the change, in this case they’re not.  You’ve
>>>>>> swapped out a symbol for something that’s basically the same except, oh, by
>>>>>> the way, all your diodes are reversed.  Am I misunderstanding this change?
>>>>>> Is this not true?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Garth
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2015, at 4:34 PM, Carl Poirier <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> KiCad's libraries were filled without any rules throughout time. All
>>>>>> these changes are necessary to have something consistent. Kerusey Karyu
>>>>>> warned people one month ago on the mailing list
>>>>>> <https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg17476.html> that we
>>>>>> were in the process of moving things around. No one complained. Now why
>>>>>> when we take action people wake up all of a sudden?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The sooner we get things straight, the better it is. If we wait too
>>>>>> much, it will be too late. Before issuing the stable release sounds like an
>>>>>> appropriate moment to land the disruptive changes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, I'm about to eradicate the special.lib library, as planned for now
>>>>>> over one month <https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-library/issues/153>,
>>>>>> a great initiative taken by Kerusey.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:21 PM, Garth Corral <gcorral@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This plan to deprecate the old diode type seems… uh... poorly
>>>>>>> thought out.  Yanking these out from under everyone and every project in
>>>>>>> exiistence and then sending out a message that says, “hey, guess what I
>>>>>>> did?” doesn’t seem like the best way to handle this.  It is most certainly
>>>>>>> not the way to win converts to kicad.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Garth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2015, at 2:31 PM, Carl Poirier <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thiadmer, your proposal would require to duplicate every .pretty
>>>>>>> repository for every stable release. And I believe the schematics won't
>>>>>>> change because of the cache.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another solution would be to modify the github plugin to fetch a
>>>>>>> branch in particular instead of the master. Then, we could create one
>>>>>>> branch in each .pretty repository that would remain in the state at the
>>>>>>> time of the stable release.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That, or we ship the stable release with local .pretty repositories
>>>>>>> as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Thiadmer Riemersma <
>>>>>>> thiadmer.riemersma@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the stable release, I would vote for backward compatibility:
>>>>>>>> have "deprecated" libraries with the diodes as they are right now
>>>>>>>> (footprints + symbols), plus "standards-compliant" libraries with the
>>>>>>>> cathode at pin 1 and the anode at pin 2. It would not be good if old
>>>>>>>> schematics change just because they are loaded in a new version of KiCad.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:31 PM, Carl Poirier <
>>>>>>>> carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe this could be implemented for the stable release.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Bob Gustafson <bobgus@xxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Sounds professional.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bob G
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 04/24/2015 12:24 PM, Adam Wolf wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For future things like this, what do people think of a webview
>>>>>>>>>> that pops up on startup after checking a site for alerts?
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2015 12:14 PM, "Carl Poirier" <
>>>>>>>>>> carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All installations need a local kicad-library, not just OS X.
>>>>>>>>>>> They are all in the same situation. The next OS X nightly will be good if
>>>>>>>>>>> you pull the latest kicad-libary for the build.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Kerusey Karyu will announce the change on the users group on
>>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo to warn people. If anyone has an account and wants to forward my
>>>>>>>>>>> message before he does, feel free to do so.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Adam Wolf <
>>>>>>>>>>> adamwolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmm.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So the OSX builds use Github by default for footprints, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> have symbols "baked in" at build time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Every OS X nightly build is going to produce bad boards, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> there's no way to tell users to update or inform them about this change
>>>>>>>>>>>> through the program at all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I really wish I would have known about this earlier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Adam Wolf
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cofounder and Engineer
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wayne and Layne
>>>>>>>>>>>>  On Apr 24, 2015 11:42 AM, "Carl Poirier" <
>>>>>>>>>>>> carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Hi folks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  This is simply to warn you that all diodes in KiCad's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> libraries have seen their pin numbers swapped. This is to be in line with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> most other software and the IPC standard as well, which states that cathode
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be pin 1. This work is courtesy of the newest librarian, Ricardo
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crudo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  If you are using Github libraries directly, the only thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you will have left to do is update your schematic libraries to the latest
>>>>>>>>>>>>> revision of https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-library before
>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing your work. If you have a local copy of the footprint
>>>>>>>>>>>>> repositories, then when you are ready you will be able to pull the changes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for both the schematic libraries and the affected footprint libraries:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  1. Diodes_SMD.pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/KiCad/Diodes_SMD.pretty>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Diodes_ThroughHole.pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/KiCad/Diodes_ThroughHole.pretty>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. LEDs.pretty <https://github.com/KiCad/LEDs.pretty>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Thank you for your understanding and sorry for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> inconvenience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Carl Poirier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>