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Message #18057
Re: UPDATE: Diode pins swapped in KiCad Libraries
On 4/24/2015 10:38 PM, Adam Wolf wrote:
> Carl and other library folks,
>
> I understand you had to make the change, and I'm certain it took hard
> work to make everything match, and I'm glad that the libraries are
> better now, but I hate the fact that many, many users will never be
> notified of this board-breaking change, and we have absolutely no way of
> notifying them.
>
> Rather than make a github-plugin specific change that will only alert
> users about changes in footprints, I think we should see if we can
> quickly code a dialog that checks a location on kicad-pcb.org
> <http://kicad-pcb.org> for news, and display it on KiCad startup by
> default if it has changed. I would like to get this in before the
> stable release, but I know we're already in feature freeze. Wayne, what
> do you think?
Technically the only breakage is when schematic component libraries
change. Footprint library changes have no effect on existing boards
since the footprints are embedded in the board file when the netlist is
imported and are modified in place after that unless the user
specifically changes them. I just committed Chris's patch so the user
will now have the option to recover the cached schematic components
which will prevent unexpected schematic changes. I am less concerned
about the footprints. The next schematic file format will embed the
component by default so this problem will go away in schematics in the
future.
>
> Adam Wolf
> Cofounder and Engineer
> Wayne and Layne, LLC
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Carl Poirier <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
> Hi Adam,
>
> Indeed, those who want to be sure nothing changes until they want so
> are better to make a local copy. With the new Footprint Libraries
> Wizard, users are just a few clicks away from it with the checkbox
> "Save a local copy to". Using the libraries directly from Github is
> bleeding-edge, but as you said the problem arises from the fact that
> we have symbols installed locally and footprints fetched from
> Github. If both are handled the same way, either way it is, it will
> be fine. And again this causes problems only for aspects of
> libraries that have to be in sync - such as pin numbers. The other
> things that have to be in sync are the 3D models. That's why many
> folks, including me, have suggested
> <https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg14793.html> to move
> the 3D model inside the .pretty library. Maybe it could be done
> elegantly, but unfortunately I'm not the one who has enough time to
> put in this.
>
> As for the other libraries, we're slowly getting to a stable and
> consistent state. Besides eradicating the special.lib library, I
> can't think of another disruptive change that will happen soon. I'm
> not saying there will be none, just that there are none planned. We
> go as our time permits.
>
> As for why people would use KiCad's libraries, I'd say because they
> can be assured at least two librarians go over a suggested change to
> iron out errors. Also because new parts are constantly thrown into
> the mix as well so the libraries are getting more complete over
> time. As for the quality of the pre-github era libraries, nothing
> can be vouched. We're fixing things as we find them. What's great is
> that with Github, it's very easy for those people in doubt about
> KiCad's libraries to contribute and make them better if they think
> there is room for it.
>
> I should have warned in advance here for this change specifically to
> make sure everyone was aware. I should have not relied on the fact
> that no one disagreed days ago about having disruptive changes in
> general. Besides that, I'm not sure what more could have been done.
>
> Regards,
>
> Carl
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 8:43 PM, Adam Wolf
> <adamwolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:adamwolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
> Carl,
>
> I have had multiple people contact me today saying, "Why would I
> ever use KiCad's libraries again?"
>
> I had no idea before your email today that diodes were going to
> change, and I follow the dev list daily, and I'm the packager
> for the OS X nightlies.
>
> We're in this together. I don't have time to check yet another
> place for KiCad changes.
>
> After I think about this some more, I'm going to start another
> thread on what this means for the OS X nightlies. By having
> half the data burned in, and half the data updated live, this is
> going to continue to happen. People are going to make bad
> boards, and if I would have bundled the footprints with the
> nightlies and not made Github the default, this wouldn't have
> happened.
>
> Most of the other packages are like this, right?
>
> Adam Wolf
>
> Cofounder and Engineer
>
> Wayne and Layne, LLC
>
> (resending from an email that can post to kicad-dev...)
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Adam Wolf <adamwwolf@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:adamwwolf@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
> Carl,
>
> I have had multiple people contact me today saying, "Why
> would I ever use KiCad's libraries again?"
>
> I had no idea before your email today that diodes were going
> to change, and I follow the dev list daily, and I'm the
> packager for the OS X nightlies.
>
> We're in this together. I don't have time to check yet
> another place for KiCad changes.
>
> After I think about this some more, I'm going to start
> another thread on what this means for the OS X nightlies.
> By having half the data burned in, and half the data updated
> live, this is going to continue to happen. People are going
> to make bad boards, and if I would have bundled the
> footprints with the nightlies and not made Github the
> default, this wouldn't have happened.
>
> Most of the other packages are like this, right?
>
> Adam Wolf
>
> Cofounder and Engineer
>
> Wayne and Layne, LLC
>
> On Apr 24, 2015 7:01 PM, "Carl Poirier"
> <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>>
> wrote:
>
> Then you should have come by and discussed the matter on
> Github. The issues and pull requests about the diodes
> had been open for a while now and open for comments. To
> get updates in time about the changes proposed, I
> suggest you watch this repository
> <https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-library>.
>
> If you have suggestions for the next similar situation,
> I'm listening.
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:55 PM, Garth Corral
> <gcorral@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:gcorral@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
> I don’t object to what you’re doing, just how it’s
> being done. You don’t think this case is just a
> little bit special? Last time things were pretty
> obviously broken with the change, in this case
> they’re not. You’ve swapped out a symbol for
> something that’s basically the same except, oh, by
> the way, all your diodes are reversed. Am I
> misunderstanding this change? Is this not true?
>
> Garth
>
>> On Apr 24, 2015, at 4:34 PM, Carl Poirier
>> <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> KiCad's libraries were filled without any rules
>> throughout time. All these changes are necessary
>> to have something consistent. Kerusey Karyu warned
>> people one month ago on the mailing list
>> <https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg17476.html>
>> that we were in the process of moving things
>> around. No one complained. Now why when we take
>> action people wake up all of a sudden?
>>
>> The sooner we get things straight, the better it
>> is. If we wait too much, it will be too late.
>> Before issuing the stable release sounds like an
>> appropriate moment to land the disruptive changes.
>>
>> BTW, I'm about to eradicate the special.lib
>> library, as planned for now over one month
>> <https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-library/issues/153>,
>> a great initiative taken by Kerusey.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:21 PM, Garth Corral
>> <gcorral@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:gcorral@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> This plan to deprecate the old diode type
>> seems… uh... poorly thought out. Yanking
>> these out from under everyone and every
>> project in exiistence and then sending out a
>> message that says, “hey, guess what I did?”
>> doesn’t seem like the best way to handle
>> this. It is most certainly not the way to win
>> converts to kicad.
>>
>>
>> Garth
>>
>>
>>> On Apr 24, 2015, at 2:31 PM, Carl Poirier
>>> <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx
>>> <mailto:carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thiadmer, your proposal would require to
>>> duplicate every .pretty repository for every
>>> stable release. And I believe the schematics
>>> won't change because of the cache.
>>>
>>> Another solution would be to modify the
>>> github plugin to fetch a branch in particular
>>> instead of the master. Then, we could create
>>> one branch in each .pretty repository that
>>> would remain in the state at the time of the
>>> stable release.
>>>
>>> That, or we ship the stable release with
>>> local .pretty repositories as well.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Thiadmer
>>> Riemersma <thiadmer.riemersma@xxxxxxxxx
>>> <mailto:thiadmer.riemersma@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>
>>> For the stable release, I would vote for
>>> backward compatibility: have "deprecated"
>>> libraries with the diodes as they are
>>> right now (footprints + symbols), plus
>>> "standards-compliant" libraries with the
>>> cathode at pin 1 and the anode at pin 2.
>>> It would not be good if old schematics
>>> change just because they are loaded in a
>>> new version of KiCad.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:31 PM, Carl
>>> Poirier <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx
>>> <mailto:carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Maybe this could be implemented for
>>> the stable release.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Bob
>>> Gustafson <bobgus@xxxxxxx
>>> <mailto:bobgus@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sounds professional.
>>>
>>> Bob G
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/24/2015 12:24 PM, Adam Wolf
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For future things like this,
>>>> what do people think of a
>>>> webview that pops up on startup
>>>> after checking a site for alerts?
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 24, 2015 12:14 PM, "Carl
>>>> Poirier"
>>>> <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> <mailto:carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> All installations need a
>>>> local kicad-library, not
>>>> just OS X. They are all in
>>>> the same situation. The next
>>>> OS X nightly will be good if
>>>> you pull the latest
>>>> kicad-libary for the build.
>>>>
>>>> Kerusey Karyu will announce
>>>> the change on the users
>>>> group on Yahoo to warn
>>>> people. If anyone has an
>>>> account and wants to forward
>>>> my message before he does,
>>>> feel free to do so.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at
>>>> 12:55 PM, Adam Wolf
>>>> <adamwolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> <mailto:adamwolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hmm.
>>>>
>>>> So the OSX builds use
>>>> Github by default for
>>>> footprints, and have
>>>> symbols "baked in" at
>>>> build time.
>>>>
>>>> Every OS X nightly build
>>>> is going to produce bad
>>>> boards, and there's no
>>>> way to tell users to
>>>> update or inform them
>>>> about this change
>>>> through the program at all.
>>>>
>>>> I really wish I would
>>>> have known about this
>>>> earlier.
>>>>
>>>> Adam Wolf
>>>> Cofounder and Engineer
>>>> Wayne and Layne
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 24, 2015 11:42
>>>> AM, "Carl Poirier"
>>>> <carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:carl.poirier.2@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> This is simply to
>>>> warn you that all
>>>> diodes in KiCad's
>>>> libraries have seen
>>>> their pin numbers
>>>> swapped. This is to
>>>> be in line with most
>>>> other software and
>>>> the IPC standard as
>>>> well, which states
>>>> that cathode should
>>>> be pin 1. This work
>>>> is courtesy of the
>>>> newest librarian,
>>>> Ricardo Crudo.
>>>>
>>>> If you are using
>>>> Github libraries
>>>> directly, the only
>>>> thing you will have
>>>> left to do is update
>>>> your schematic
>>>> libraries to the
>>>> latest revision
>>>> of https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-library before
>>>> continuing your
>>>> work. If you have a
>>>> local copy of the
>>>> footprint
>>>> repositories, then
>>>> when you are ready
>>>> you will be able to
>>>> pull the changes for
>>>> both the schematic
>>>> libraries and the
>>>> affected footprint
>>>> libraries:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Diodes_SMD.pretty
>>>> <https://github.com/KiCad/Diodes_SMD.pretty>
>>>> 2.
>>>> Diodes_ThroughHole.pretty
>>>> <https://github.com/KiCad/Diodes_ThroughHole.pretty>
>>>> 3. LEDs.pretty
>>>> <https://github.com/KiCad/LEDs.pretty>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your
>>>> understanding and
>>>> sorry for the
>>>> inconvenience.
>>>>
>>>> Carl Poirier
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Ekicad-developers>
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>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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>>>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Ekicad-developers>
>>>> More help :
>>>> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Post to : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Post to :
>>> kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Unsubscribe :
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>>> More help :
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>> Post to :
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>>> Mailing list:
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>>> Post to :
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>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>> Post to : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> Post to : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
>
References
-
UPDATE: Diode pins swapped in KiCad Libraries
From: Carl Poirier, 2015-04-24
-
Re: UPDATE: Diode pins swapped in KiCad Libraries
From: Carl Poirier, 2015-04-24
-
Re: UPDATE: Diode pins swapped in KiCad Libraries
From: Adam Wolf, 2015-04-24
-
Re: UPDATE: Diode pins swapped in KiCad Libraries
From: Bob Gustafson, 2015-04-24
-
Re: UPDATE: Diode pins swapped in KiCad Libraries
From: Carl Poirier, 2015-04-24
-
Re: UPDATE: Diode pins swapped in KiCad Libraries
From: Thiadmer Riemersma, 2015-04-24
-
Re: UPDATE: Diode pins swapped in KiCad Libraries
From: Carl Poirier, 2015-04-24
-
Re: UPDATE: Diode pins swapped in KiCad Libraries
From: Garth Corral, 2015-04-24
-
Re: UPDATE: Diode pins swapped in KiCad Libraries
From: Carl Poirier, 2015-04-24
-
Re: UPDATE: Diode pins swapped in KiCad Libraries
From: Garth Corral, 2015-04-24
-
Re: UPDATE: Diode pins swapped in KiCad Libraries
From: Carl Poirier, 2015-04-25
-
Re: UPDATE: Diode pins swapped in KiCad Libraries
From: Adam Wolf, 2015-04-25
-
Re: UPDATE: Diode pins swapped in KiCad Libraries
From: Carl Poirier, 2015-04-25
-
Re: UPDATE: Diode pins swapped in KiCad Libraries
From: Adam Wolf, 2015-04-25
