kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 10/1/2015 5:03 PM, Cirilo Bernardo wrote:
> I think in general VRML models suffer from a somewhat random (0,0,0)
> reference
> and even the orientation is typically 1 of 4 common orientations.  This
> is due in
> part from the habits of whoever created the model and in part from the
> modeling
> software used. We will see more such problems when we have the capability to
> use more types of models.  The only scheme I can think of so far which may
> help with this issue is to have an optional file alongside each 3D model
> file to
> provide information needed to put the model into a nominal position. For
> models
> not at (0,0,0) such a scheme would also save people from typing the same
> information into the VRML scale/rotation/translation box all the time.
> The down
> sides of course are these extra files and the fact that if 2 files have
> the same
> name but different (0,0,0) someone will have to remember to edit the
> positioning
> file. The file is not intended to replace the scale/rotation/translation
> within KiCad
> but to transparently add to it. The model manager can make this happen
> without
> additional user interaction. Unfortunately this scheme can only help to
> create the
> nominal position - whatever a user decides that must be. It doesn't help
> at all
> if footprints change their (0,0) reference between projects, which is
> the case for
> the newer THT footprints in the KiCad libraries.
> 
> Changes so far which can cause problems:
> schematic symbols:
> + many changed size and the location of connection points
> + Diodes were made consistent so K is always Pin 1 (which I think should
> have
>    been the case even for THT since K is the marked pin)
> + Orientations may have changed
> 
> footprints:
> + (0,0) reference for THT components has changed; I'm not familiar at
> all with
>    the orientation of SMT footprints so I can't say if they've changed,
> but some
>    rules were put in place to ensure a consistent orientation. I suspect
> the (0,0)
>    position remains the 'center of body' since that's what's required by
> placing
>    machines, but I haven't been following the changes.

Has anyone checked if the position files are correct for THT footprints
with the pin 1 reference points at 0,0?  If this breaks user's position
files used for pick & place, this is *really* bad and I would consider
this a potential stable release blocker.  Someone needs to confirm this
so we can make a decision.

> + Orientation has changed for many THT components
> 
> VRML models:
> + many have changed orientation
> + many have changed (0,0,0)

I would prefer that the orientation and scaling match footprint so the
user doesn't have to change anything by default.  In other words, the
scaling is always 1 and the offsets and rotation angles are always 0.

> 
> We should definitely provide big red warning signs for users telling them of
> the potential problems and reminding them that they should archive all
> existing projects before switching if they make use of the kicad libraries. 
> 
> - Cirilo
> 
> 
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 6:24 AM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> 
>     The only down side is that as improvements are made to the 3D models,
>     they would not be visible.  I hope at some point in the future our 3D
>     models could be improved (some of material properties are very wrong)
>     now that FreeCAD exports vrml files that the 3D viewer can use.  I would
>     think the demos should track the latest and greatest to show case
>     KiCad's capabilities.
> 
>     The "everything" project archive sounds interesting but it should be
>     discussed outside this bug report.
> 
>     On 10/1/2015 4:15 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>     > It's a right shame we don't have any standalone project archive format
>     > that holds *everything*. That would be *very* useful for this sort of
>     > thing, as well as just generally making sure projects can always be opened.
>     >
>     > I wonder if there is any developer interest in that besides me. It's
>     > definitely on my list of things I'd like to work on post-release, but I
>     > don't have much time lately...
>     >
>     > On Oct 1, 2015 3:52 PM, "nnn" <nnn4000@xxxxx <mailto:nnn4000@xxxxx> <mailto:nnn4000@xxxxx
>     <mailto:nnn4000@xxxxx>>> wrote:
>     >
>     >     Why not to add 3d files (from some old revision of library) to
>     >     projects folder and use paths relative to KIPRJMOD? If demos will
>     >     refer to some special revision of library with 3d models they will
>     >     break each time the models are moved or renamed.
>     >
>     >
>     >     W dniu 01.10.2015 o 16:20, Wayne Stambaugh pisze:
>     >
>     >         I just committed a fix for broken 3D model link in the interf_u demo
>     >         https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1500956.  While I was at it, I
>     >         looked at the rest of the demos that have board files and they are
>     >         broken (one partially) as well.  Here is an opportunity for
>     >         someone to
>     >         help out the project and no programming experience is require.
>     >         All you
>     >         need to know is how to associate 3D models with footprints in
>     >         Pcbnew and
>     >         how to use bzr to create branch and a patch (well documented many
>     >         places).  If someone has time to do this before the stable
>     >         release, it
>     >         really would be nice if our demos showed off the 3D models.
>     >
>     >         Thanks,
>     >
>     >         Wayne
>     >
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