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This may work when the output is directly connected to the net.But if you have some output/input filter behind it this will not work as expected, you still need the power flag then.
André On 06.02.2016 18:29, Andrew Zonenberg wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I do the same thing - power flags and hidden pins are banned in my designs. To supply power to a net I set the "power output" flag on the pins of the connector going to the battery/power plug. On 06/02/16 09:23, André S. wrote:Ok, I see your point regarding not breaking old designs. However: the current KiCad broke mine, since it does regard hidden pins different than "the old KiCad" (around 2013). The old KiCad connected a visible "hidden pin" only to the connected net. The current KiCad still connects it to "VDD" regardless of the connected net and therefore connects two different named nets. Which then forbids the use of "VDD" for a power net, when you use a KiCad library part with hidden pins in your design and connect its power pin to a no-"VDD" net. BUT if I did "the right thing" right from start, KiCad would have warned me, that I connected two "power nets". Which it does when I place a "power flag" on each net. (Which is one way where KiCad forces its "true way" where other tools have the "power flag" built into the power net symbols.) I learned my lesson on this one: do not use KiCad library parts, create your own. Regarding multiple names on (not power) nets. There was a discussion some time ago. If I remember correctly, most people that use that feature would be OK with net-aliases (which is what they use that feature for) and having a fixed name on that net. Currently when a net has a name and you add a new label it may occur that KiCad uses the new label name for the net. In the PCB the trace then gets a new name, which may not be what the user intended. Also with the current implementation you may accidentally connect two nets and have _no_ way to check this with ERC. My proposal on this is: Newer KiCad versions can check for multiple names on a net and raise an error/warning when it sees one. Therefore the user has a way to see accidentally connected nets. Regarding not breaking old designs: One way: KiCad will need a dialog window where the user can add aliases to the net to keep current functionality. This dialog may be accessible from the ERC report window to give the user a way to do it the "right way". Net aliases are then handled like net labels but do not (re)define the name of the net in the netlist. OR second way: The user ignores the error/warning and works as before. André On 06.02.2016 16:52, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:I would not have allowed that to be implemented. One thing I try to avoid is forcing users down the "one true way" path of pcb design whenever possible. I prefer to give users the flexibility to design as they see fit even if it means that kicad has a steeper learning curve. I don't pretend to be wise enough to know what the "one true way" is and I really don't like someone else forcing it upon me so it would be hypocritical of me to force it upon someone else. If you are comfortable with hidden pins, use them. If not, don't. On 2/6/2016 9:59 AM, Thor-Arne wrote:I agree with Chris on the hidden pins issue, old design should not be broken.That is also a no-no for the project. One of the goals of kicad is to make every effort to maintain backwards compatibility.When it comes to net names I think they should be forced to be unique. Anyway, are we going to collect features requests now? Would it be better to have a wanted-feauture list on github instead of the mail list so nothing gets lost?Take a look at the release 5 (current development cycle) road map. Maybe we can add it to one of the existing tasks where it makes sense. Please keep in mind, we cannot endlessly add tasks to the release 5 road map. We need to be realistic about what we can achieve given our current manpower. I can always add new tasks to the global road map for future dev cycles.-----Original Message----- From: Chris Pavlina Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2016 3:30 PM To: André S. Cc: KiCad Developers Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] Discussion: Hidden Pins, Net labels Eh. I agree 100% about hidden pins being Bad, anyone using them surely should be tarred and feathered. But I'm not sure it's our place to enforce good schematic drawing practices. If people want to use KiCad to draw terrible, horrible schematics, they'll find a way. Personally, I'm *strongly* against breaking old projects, the feature should be kept around at least as a legacy support feature for old projects that are imported. I just don't use hidden pins, they're strictly forbidden in my libs and I would never use them for anything other than implementing power symbols. On the fence about net names. On Sat, Feb 06, 2016 at 03:22:04PM +0100, André S. wrote:Hi everyone, this issues are still on my wishlist for KiCad: - Ban hidden Pins. - Disallow multiple labels on the same net. Especially the combination of those two is a source for non-obvious design bugs. Wayne recently stated that now the planning for release 5 has started, so I just thought I bring it up again. I wrote a blog entry why I think those two topics should be addressed, you can find it here (warning: wall of text ahead ;)): http://transistorgrab.de/2016/02/05/why-hidden-pins-are-evil-and-nets-should-only-have-one-name/I'm really interested that at least there is a definite conclusion forKiCad and that this conclusion is then put somewhere obvious in the documentation with all the pitfalls that come with that features and how to avoid them. Thanks in advance for anyone taking part in the discussion. :) Best Regards, André _______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp_______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp _______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp_______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp_______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWti2VAAoJEDRhermzHH189A0P/34Jf0MJ1CB4dbNEQj4zEGiQ daCAjit1rQRjNr0n4ESjB03ehPMIyFauXjA3fjmGCZnhkgUWALYQdB3Zl87aIm3h YC30+ATFPbBHEUB4Quctq1JP19tp0ylO9mGFAVximcCZHnyZONmKMF2ZjTMlGC5c nJ8lxtcBLRNR2LOXeY23XAEuSoClgO1A4S0ltWpFdG0wOyi3o6GBWuOmq8p/pOcq VHUwLv892QCrbrPumrvlRDHYY0fQWU65mgvg/BrBouOoyXfE6pX8w5NmJ3L0OxsB 2gv92i+/cNt9iTKUa56PdSETW9DAn0dnkB7krQIAiiyemCoQcCeGrz7xydebavww v4FsoVEb7ZfbEW6HUjI6GVCkAw1xbnEp6VXIKR3m700reb+BC5fMBJS+cLfsyakX vG11+/mgYfiperO+SiP5vlTEIMdJpD8GVyuO9113EPeW3zHlcCCJMfMm3zDW+vMF jFjXAmpH+o0o1MOyfD4x/5zu/CMspKr3/2ja5OX5Tcfcqugy0AK8XKX6tU39cBKm p7SqzsODSH9B/m46n4QucYNPgygagKo+cR/nw0xb4ZOLgsGXSWhzeoKk665M5tTp Y3PoUz11Ac7jVk4uZve93+nsIoEm3nFimrJ/IT2RMn0a/kf7YydrI+kg989t+klc q6ClJBo2Mlvgm+w0jem3 =XEqP -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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