kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[easyw <easyw@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Mario,
> Probably Cirilo got the wrong movie room or it was not an IMAX cinema... but in any case.. I think he is looking for an "home theater cinema" solution.
I will be one of the most happy fan of a direct integration of STEP in 
kicad, but I just don't want that a wrong message would pass
FreeCAD developers are very nice and their effort is very strong... they 
are also on Google Summer Code ...
for me FreeCAD solved many mechanical problems, as kicad did for ECAD 
environment, but you need to spend some time in learning how to use an 
instrument before saying that is good or bad IMO...
If I would catch someone giving a bad reputation to kicad in i.e. 
eevblog forum, I would reply giving my point of view (as in fact I did) :)
> .. aaand back to work..
good-oh

Maurice

On 08/03/2016 13.22, Mário Luzeiro wrote:
> Hi Maurice,
>
> In any case, Cirilo is looking for a solution for KiCad. No matter if we like it or not. That are separated things.
> Even if the quality is good or bad, he have to compare with something and one thing would be a (good or bad) 3d plugin for (integration with) kicad other will be a 3rd part tool (good or bad).
>
> So even if FreeCAD was perfect, it was not a KiCad software part.
>
> If you want watch a movie, you can go to the cinema or watch it at home (if you have a home cinema player or something to play it).
> At moment it is still not possible to watch a movie at home with KiCad... if that becomes possible, people are still free to go to the cinema.. because that are two different ways of watch a movie.
>
> Probably Cirilo got the wrong movie room or it was not an IMAX cinema... but in any case.. I think he is looking for an "home theater cinema" solution.
>
> Do not miss the scenes of the next episode... :) .. aaand back to work..
>
> MRL
>
> ________________________________________
> From: easyw [easyw@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 08 March 2016 11:48
> To: Mário Luzeiro; Cirilo Bernardo; KiCad Developers
> Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] 3D models: custom VRML export vs FreeCAD (OCE/Coin3D) VRML export
>
> Hi,
> >   Why do you say that is anyone (where?) against FreeCAD?
> you don't see anything against FreeCAD quality here?
> > Hi folks,
> >   I'd just like to share a comparison of the OCE VRML export from my
> > visualization experiments vs the FreeCAD VRML exporter.
> > FreeCAD: file size ~28MB, >800 warnings about defects in the model,
> >   bad lighting model for VRML:
> or there?
> > cbernardo
> > Jan 20
> > xavierw
> > Thanks for pointing out the problem with FreeCAD bloating the STEP files. For me that means that I'll have to go create a lightweight STEP library for kicad some time in the future. I already have an IGES library which is capable of creating PCB mechanical assembly models but (a) I need to make some large changes to kicad so that Export functions can be implemented by plugins and (b) my library has no provisions to actually display a model. Since I only work on the code in what little spare time I have, it will be a year or more before we see any such features in kicad. At least for now there's FreeCAD, even if it bloats the models by a ridiculous amount.
> https://forum.kicad.info/t/3d-new-library-for-mechanical-cad-exporting-and-enclosure-design/1763/94
> > Anyway, I guess this is the right place if there are technical discussions or technical help need!
> and I'm giving just technical help on what I consider not correct
> information on FreeCAD comparison to help people not following wrong
> advices...
>
> > https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg11411.html
> > Probably now a good time to recall it since the kicad stable is out and I believe we can add new features...
> that would nice, but I suspect that he won't reply this mailing list
> anymore ...
>
> Maurice
>
>
> On 08/03/2016 12.17, Mário Luzeiro wrote:
> > > I've been in contact with Cirilo from about 4 years now :) and I was asking exactly this feature... but that was so in very low priority (years!!!)
> >
> > Damn it! You mean Cirilo took 4 years!! to attend your requests?! That guy must be very lazy!.. :D
> > I'm used to ask something and get it for free, impeccable, by the next day! (free shipping too!)
> >
> >
> > > if you see the mailing list a guy already suggested to export STEP using his code in 2013, giving also a STEP file as an example, offering to share it, but he was ignored
> > > https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg11409.html
> >
> > I had a look and it was not ignored, Wayne reply and he was happy:
> > https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg11411.html
> > I don't know why it didn't follow
> > Probably now a good time to recall it since the kicad stable is out and I believe we can add new features...
> >
> >
> > > you may have forgotten the files I already shared with you ...
> > > https://sourceforge.net/projects/kicadstepup/files/prjs/HACK-master-R2.7z/download
> >
> > Maybe Cirilo would like to have a look and compare, I dont have the plugin he is developing...
> >
> >
> > > > so I see nothing wrong with that and it does not do in any way an attack competition to your StepUP converter.
> > > me either, but I cannot understand why there is a trend against FreeCAD
> > > which is the only opensource MCAD sw robust and featured that can
> > > managed STEP import and export without any issues
> >
> > Why do you say that is anyone (where?) against FreeCAD?
> >
> > When you do some work, you have the main software (i.e: KiCad) and you can have multiple 3rd part softwares that can help you doing the job, special for open source softwares, it is natural to use multiple tools.
> >
> > The thing is, here is the KiCad (software) developers mailing list :) So it is natural that we are more focused on KiCad development as the software. (On other side, the KiCad libraries have another mailing list... )
> > I dont know which department should be responsible for promote 3rd part tools (ok I know it is a bit mixed here on this mailing list) but maybe someone related with webpage and community should give more visibility to 3rd part tools.
> > Anyway, I guess this is the right place if there are technical discussions or technical help need!
> >
> > Cheers!
> > Mario Luzeiro
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: easyw [easyw@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: 08 March 2016 10:51
> > To: Mário Luzeiro; Cirilo Bernardo; KiCad Developers
> > Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] 3D models: custom VRML export vs FreeCAD (OCE/Coin3D) VRML export
> >
> > Hi Mario,
> > > I think it is subtended that Cirilo was comparing that with original FreeCAD VRML exporter
> > me too ... if you use FreeCAD i.e. 0.14 (two years old) you cannot
> > compare results as you couldn't from kicad revision 4022 and kicad now...
> > if you don't export the VRML file with the right representation in
> > FreeCAD you cannot compare results (i.e. at least you need to display
> > the model shaded before export it) ... etc...
> > Moreover there is also kicad StepUp VRML exporter which is optimized for
> > kicad and blender, with smaller size and easily parsing... but this is
> > another story :)
> > > Looks like Cirilo is trying to develop a 3d plugin for KiCad, this is a different process and it is ok to have different processes and they all coexist.
> > I will be very happy to see import and export STEP format in kicad...
> > if you look at kicad mailing list, yahoo etc. I've been in contact with
> > Cirilo from about 4 years now :) and I was asking exactly this
> > feature... but that was so in very low priority (years!!!)
> > then I developed kicad StepUp externally of kicad for the reasons I
> > already explained ....
> > if you see the mailing list a guy already suggested to export STEP using
> > his code in 2013, giving also a STEP file as an example, offering to
> > share it, but he was ignored
> > https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg11409.html
> > file stp model
> > https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/zipw8JoR_StIy.zip
> >
> > > Maybe you can propose a STEP file to Cirilo to test instead? So you can both compare your results?
> > you may have forgotten the files I already shared with you ...
> > https://sourceforge.net/projects/kicadstepup/files/prjs/HACK-master-R2.7z/download
> > and that you tested with your 3d-viewer branch
> > https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/pngF6QWCF3eDp.png
> > https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg23622.html
> >
> > this is a fully portable project with all STEP models coming from
> > FreeCAD (manually or parametric/script generated) and all VRML models
> > exported with kicad StepUp macro for a better file size and Blender
> > compatibility
> >
> > > so I see nothing wrong with that and it does not do in any way an attack competition to your StepUP converter.
> > me either, but I cannot understand why there is a trend against FreeCAD
> > which is the only opensource MCAD sw robust and featured that can
> > managed STEP import and export without any issues
> > I think that FreeCAD is the only alternative to commercial MCAD that can
> > be used for MCAD designing, MCAD model creation in opensource environment
> >
> > Maurice
> >
> >
> > On 08/03/2016 10.48, Mário Luzeiro wrote:
> > > Hi Maurice,
> > >
> > > I think it is subtended that Cirilo was comparing that with original FreeCAD VRML exporter, so I see nothing wrong with that and it does not do in any way an attack competition to your StepUP converter.
> > > Looks like Cirilo is trying to develop a 3d plugin for KiCad, this is a different process and it is ok to have different processes and they all coexist.
> > >
> > > Maybe you can propose a STEP file to Cirilo to test instead? So you can both compare your results?
> > > I could also suggest some very small VRML file output so you can share (with me!) and really have a look on its content.
> > >
> > > Mario
> > >
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: Kicad-developers [kicad-developers-bounces+mrluzeiro=ua.pt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] on behalf of easyw [easyw@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: 08 March 2016 09:29
> > > To: Cirilo Bernardo
> > > Cc: KiCad Developers
> > > Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] 3D models: custom VRML export vs FreeCAD (OCE/Coin3D) VRML export
> > >
> > > the problem with your comparison is a wrong way to export from FreeCAD...
> > > if you use kicad in wrong way you could also say kicad is useless for
> > > creating pcbs ...
> > > if you share a STEP model you have made, or just with public license I
> > > will make a comparison with that...
> > > I have many STEP models for a real comparison, I did MCAD libraries for
> > > MCAD collaboration with STEP and VRML models for kicad and they will not
> > > give any warnings, or bad lighting model for VRML .... but that would be
> > > on my point of view :)
> > > I would show you what can be done with FreeCAD and kicad StepUP on your
> > > side :)
> > > Maurice
> > >
> > > On 08/03/2016 10.14, Cirilo Bernardo wrote:
> > > > Unfortunately I can't share the STEP file since it is someone else's
> > > > proprietary data. But if you have a STEP assembly which we can all use
> > > > for a comparison of the different translators then we can do a test.
> > > >
> > > > - Cirilo
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 7:17 PM, easyw <easyw@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > <mailto:easyw@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >        would you mind to share the step file for a real comparison?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >        On 08/03/2016 09.04, Cirilo Bernardo wrote:
> > > >
> > > >            Hi folks,
> > > >
> > > >               I'd just like to share a comparison of the OCE VRML export
> > > >            from my
> > > >            visualization experiments vs the FreeCAD VRML exporter.
> > > >
> > > >            FreeCAD: file size ~28MB, >800 warnings about defects in the model,
> > > >               bad lighting model for VRML:
> > > >
> > > >            https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By_XTJN-s8aXNF8xZnZvRGU0amM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >            Custom OCE export (via the scenegraph library from kicad 3D work):
> > > >            ~14MB, no warnings, default lighting as per VRML2 specification.
> > > >
> > > >            https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By_XTJN-s8aXVmRiSVFwYnNqZ1k
> > > >
> > > >            Original STEP file size: ~15MB
> > > >
> > > >            - Cirilo
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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