kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Tue, Feb 07, 2017 at 01:15:43PM +0100, Kristoffer Ödmark wrote:
> I think the aim then should be to inform about this. I see the "invisible"
> checkbox as being just that, it makes the pins invisible, but still
> connected.
> 
> Shouldnt this be a warning issue for the ERC, connecting to an invisible pin
> that is not stacked?
> 
> And as you said, you had to clean out parts that had invisible pins that
> that was supposed not to be connected. Fault of creating the symbol, I think
> the symbol should be reworked instead of hardcoding around faulty symbols.
> 
> There are many silly ways of using stuff, I dont agree that having a
> visibility checkbox determining if it is connectable is the right way,
> rather have a pop-up warning that says that you have connected to an
> invisible pin.

...you don't think kicad has enough popup warnings /yet/?! Are you
kidding?

The feature is confusing, it should be reworked to be less confusing.
Not leave it confusing and yell at the user when he gets confused.

> 
> - Kristoffer
> 
> On 2017-02-07 12:50, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> >On Tue, Feb 07, 2017 at 12:44:45PM +0100, Kristoffer Ödmark wrote:
> >>I wasnt saying its a good idea, but having invisible pins indicates that you
> >>want to connect to something that is not visible, its literaly there in the
> >>name. An invisible pin.
> >
> >I have seen numerous parts made by people who clearly don't get that, as
> >they think invisible pins are a nice way to represent no-connect pins
> >visibly in libedit that don't show up in and clutter the schematic. Just
> >had to clean a bunch of those out of my own library that someone
> >submitted, and someone else said the official KiCad libs have a bunch
> >too. Not sure why you think it's so obvious when actual usage shows it's
> >not.
> >
> >>
> >>I mean, otherwise there could be a stacked pin instead. Im not saying that
> >>invisible pins are good practise, but thats not really for me to say.
> >>
> >>What is silly is having invisible pins working as no-pins except if they are
> >>a stacked pin, well that doesnt sound clear to me.
> >
> >What's silly is using them that way when you could just hide the pin
> >text. It's only the text that collides and makes them look bad.
> >
> >Compromise: don't connect invisible pins of type "no connect". Remove
> >the stupidity in the design without screwing the people who depended on
> >it.
> >
> >>
> >>-Kristoffer
> >>
> >>On 2017-02-07 12:33, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> >>>Honestly I think that's one of the silliest things I've ever heard. Pins
> >>>that you can't see should make connections that you can't see to wires
> >>>that you can? The ONLY imaginable use case for this is stacks of pins.
> >>>Every other possible case is a mistake.
> >>>
> >>>On Tue, Feb 07, 2017 at 11:09:44AM +0100, Kristoffer Ödmark wrote:
> >>>>Honestly I think the invisible pins are supposed to work exactly as they
> >>>>are, that they should be able to connect, otherwise there are the "no
> >>>>connect" - pin type or the option of just removing the pin from the symbol
> >>>>altogether.
> >>>>
> >>>>- Kristoffer
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>On 02/07/2017 10:02 AM, Oliver Walters wrote:
> >>>>>Kristoffer this is good feedback. I did not expect this to get pushed
> >>>>>straight away, and perhaps there is a way forward that won't break
> >>>>>schematics.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Relying on implicit connected that is *not* displayed on the schematic
> >>>>>seems like a very bad idea to me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I appreciate your use case (I currently have a few symbols that do that
> >>>>>too).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 7:57 PM, Kristoffer Ödmark
> >>>>><kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  This seems dangerous, I have seen a few design where there are 5-10
> >>>>>  pins hidden under the same pin, excpecting them to be connected.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  I would rather this hidden connections were indicated in some way,
> >>>>>  this change disconnects lines and might break some users
> >>>>>  footprints-symbols connection.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  - Kristoffer
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  On 02/07/2017 09:47 AM, Oliver Walters wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      Hi all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      The attached patch prevents invisible pins from being connected
> >>>>>      using
> >>>>>      the wire tool in eeschema.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      a) If you connect a wire endpoint to the same position as a pin
> >>>>>      endpoint, they are NOT connected visually
> >>>>>      b) Wires and insivible pins are also ignored during netlist creation
> >>>>>      c) This does not affect the ability of invisible power-pins to
> >>>>>      automatically connect to global power labels
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      Is the current behavior of connecting invisible pins to wire
> >>>>>      endpoints
> >>>>>      desired? Or is it just an aberration?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      If there is a very good reason that pins not visible in the
> >>>>>      schematic
> >>>>>      are able to be connected silently?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      before: http://i.imgur.com/3gModvW.png
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      after: http://i.imgur.com/r8O7c3Y.png
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      (Note the 'dangling' wire-end indication)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      Cheers,
> >>>>>      Oliver
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  --
> >>>>>   -Kristoffer
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>-Kristoffer
> >>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
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