kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Yeah, this is going to be a problem any time there is a situation where
KiCad does it differently than "the standard", but has been doing it that
way forever.  No easy fix that pleases both the old users and the new
users.  Other open source software has had this problem too (GIMP, etc)

My own thoughts on the matter are that I want to never have to change layer
using the layer picker, and always have it hidden.  Based on the behavior
of other tools I have used, I think that it is possible to greatly reduce
the need to manually change layers, and especially to do so with the mouse
rather than a hotkey.

-Jon

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> I can just hear users howling already when they left click the color
> swatch thinking that they are selecting the layer and then have to
> dismiss the color select dialog to continue working.  If we cannot come
> up with a better solution, it may be best to leave sleeping dogs lie.  I
> wonder how many of the 75% of voters in the poll would response to
> having to dismiss the color selection dialog every time they
> inadvertently left clicked the color button?  This may be a case of
> ignorance being bliss.
>
> On 2/21/2017 12:54 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
> > FWIW, this is what my expecations were as a new user when I started with
> > KiCad (for what would happen with a single left-click) based on how
> > things work in other applications with layer managers I have used (ECAD,
> > graphics, etc):
> >
> > http://i.imgur.com/Euh2Gjwl.png
> >
> > -Jon
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >
> >     By the way.
> >
> >     https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer-
> manager/5421 <https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer-
> manager/5421>
> >
> >     Feel free to add your own responses. The results look pretty
> conclusive
> >     right now ;)
> >
> >     On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:40:05AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> >     > Sent to wrong recipient.
> >     >
> >     > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:38:43AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> >     > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 05:24:14PM +0100, jp charras wrote:
> >     > > > Le 21/02/2017 à 16:07, Chris Pavlina a écrit :
> >     > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 09:35:34AM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh
> wrote:
> >     > > > >> My only issue with this change is that the tooltip letting
> >     the user know
> >     > > > >> that a left button double click or a middle button click
> >     would allow
> >     > > > >> them to change the color is gone.  Other than that, it
> >     looks great.  I
> >     > > > >> like the use of Bind instead of Connect.  Bind has a much
> >     cleaner
> >     > > > >> interface than Connect and according to the wx folks is the
> >     proper way
> >     > > > >> to handle events.
> >     > > > >
> >     > > > > The tooltip is useless, nobody is going to hover over them
> >     for long
> >     > > > > enough to see it. I was just talking to someone this morning
> >     who never
> >     > > > > found the tooltip because he was too busy clicking on the
> >     buttons to
> >     > > > > make them work.
> >     > > > >
> >     > > > > Every other color well in every other application opens its
> >     selection
> >     > > > > dialog with a single left click. Why can't ours?
> >     > > >
> >     > > > First you have to decide if the main purpose is to select the
> >     active layer or to change the color layer.
> >     > > > The answer will give also the answer to "Why can't ours".
> >     > > >
> >     > > > For me the answer is not obvious, but my opinion is:
> >     > > > the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the
> >     working layer.
> >     > > > Therefore the single left click should change the layer,
> >     whatever you are clicking.
> >     > > >
> >     > > > If the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the
> >     color, then a single left click should
> >     > > > open the color dialog.
> >     > >
> >     > > This isn't "the layer manager", it's a color well IN the layer
> >     manager.
> >     > >
> >     > > >
> >     > > > If the single left click opens the dialog, be sure many times,
> >     when clicking inside the layer
> >     > > > manager, you will open the dialog, instead of changing the
> >     active layer, especially if you are too
> >     > > > busy clicking on the window to verify the exact position of
> >     the mouse.
> >     > > > (It frequently happened to me when the single click was
> >     opening the dialog)
> >     > > >
> >     > > > A wise decision is never obvious.
> >     > > > (A reason like "other applications do that" is not necessary a
> >     good reason.
> >     > > > Each application has its constraints and its compromises)
> >     > >
> >     > > YES IT IS. Consistency is the single most important way to make
> an
> >     > > interface understandable. A box containing a color is a color
> >     well, and
> >     > > color wells behave the exact same way in everything that isn't
> >     kicad.
> >     > >
> >     > > Next you'll tell me "File->Open opening a file in other
> >     applications is
> >     > > not a good reason it shouldn't display a photo of a llama in
> KiCad".
> >     > >
> >     > > >
> >     > > > >
> >     > > > >>
> >     > > > >> On 2/21/2017 8:04 AM, John Beard wrote:
> >     > > > >>> Hi,
> >     > > > >>>
> >     > > > >>> These patches fix the layer/render widget swatches in
> >     Linux under new
> >     > > > >>> GTK+ toolkits. Fix for:
> >     https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411
> >     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411>
> >     > > > >>>
> >     > > > >>> The patches remove the "button" nature of the swatches,
> >     since they
> >     > > > >>> weren't actually actuated by a single click, so the button
> >     affordance
> >     > > > >>> was misleading anyway. Also on OSX, the button was
> >     invisible, so it
> >     > > > >>> just looked like a flat swatch anyway.
> >     > > > >>>
> >     > > > >>> * Linux as it was:
> >     > > > >>>
> >     https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view
> >     <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view>
> >     > > > >>> * OSX as it was:
> >     > > > >>>
> >     https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot%
> 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png
> >     <https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot%
> 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png>
> >     > > > >>> * Linux after this patch: see attachment
> >     > > > >>>
> >     > > > >>> This is followed by a refactor to pull the swatch logic
> >     out of the
> >     > > > >>> layer widget into common, where it can be used by other
> >     clients, for
> >     > > > >>> example the eeschema display color dialog, if wanted.
> >     > > > >>>
> >     > > > >>> Patch #3 is a simple replacement of old WX Connect with
> >     Bind for
> >     > > > >>> consistency in that file.
> >     > > > >>>
> >     > > > >>> Cheers,
> >     > > > >>>
> >     > > > >>> John
> >     > > > >>>
> >     > > > >>>
> >     > > > >>>
> >     > > > >>> _______________________________________________
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> >     > > > >>>
> >     > > > >>
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> >     > > > >
> >     > > >
> >     > > >
> >     > > > --
> >     > > > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> >     > > >
> >     > > > _______________________________________________
> >     > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
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