kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 01:26:17PM -0500, Jon Evans wrote:
> Yeah, this is going to be a problem any time there is a situation where
> KiCad does it differently than "the standard", but has been doing it that
> way forever.  No easy fix that pleases both the old users and the new
> users.  Other open source software has had this problem too (GIMP, etc)

A part of me really wants to fork KiCad, spend a year or so removing ALL
these silly KiCadisms that "users will howl about", and release it as a
new de-crustified project with the understanding that everything will be
different because everything was stupid before. I bet *checks sofa*
$3.24 that users would flock to it.

Sadly, that part of me lives in a fantasy world where days have 48 hours
and I get paid megabucks to sit on my butt.

> 
> My own thoughts on the matter are that I want to never have to change layer
> using the layer picker, and always have it hidden.  Based on the behavior
> of other tools I have used, I think that it is possible to greatly reduce
> the need to manually change layers, and especially to do so with the mouse
> rather than a hotkey.
> 
> -Jon
> 
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> 
> > I can just hear users howling already when they left click the color
> > swatch thinking that they are selecting the layer and then have to
> > dismiss the color select dialog to continue working.  If we cannot come
> > up with a better solution, it may be best to leave sleeping dogs lie.  I
> > wonder how many of the 75% of voters in the poll would response to
> > having to dismiss the color selection dialog every time they
> > inadvertently left clicked the color button?  This may be a case of
> > ignorance being bliss.
> >
> > On 2/21/2017 12:54 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
> > > FWIW, this is what my expecations were as a new user when I started with
> > > KiCad (for what would happen with a single left-click) based on how
> > > things work in other applications with layer managers I have used (ECAD,
> > > graphics, etc):
> > >
> > > http://i.imgur.com/Euh2Gjwl.png
> > >
> > > -Jon
> > >
> > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx
> > > <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> > >
> > >     By the way.
> > >
> > >     https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer-
> > manager/5421 <https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer-
> > manager/5421>
> > >
> > >     Feel free to add your own responses. The results look pretty
> > conclusive
> > >     right now ;)
> > >
> > >     On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:40:05AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> > >     > Sent to wrong recipient.
> > >     >
> > >     > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:38:43AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> > >     > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 05:24:14PM +0100, jp charras wrote:
> > >     > > > Le 21/02/2017 à 16:07, Chris Pavlina a écrit :
> > >     > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 09:35:34AM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh
> > wrote:
> > >     > > > >> My only issue with this change is that the tooltip letting
> > >     the user know
> > >     > > > >> that a left button double click or a middle button click
> > >     would allow
> > >     > > > >> them to change the color is gone.  Other than that, it
> > >     looks great.  I
> > >     > > > >> like the use of Bind instead of Connect.  Bind has a much
> > >     cleaner
> > >     > > > >> interface than Connect and according to the wx folks is the
> > >     proper way
> > >     > > > >> to handle events.
> > >     > > > >
> > >     > > > > The tooltip is useless, nobody is going to hover over them
> > >     for long
> > >     > > > > enough to see it. I was just talking to someone this morning
> > >     who never
> > >     > > > > found the tooltip because he was too busy clicking on the
> > >     buttons to
> > >     > > > > make them work.
> > >     > > > >
> > >     > > > > Every other color well in every other application opens its
> > >     selection
> > >     > > > > dialog with a single left click. Why can't ours?
> > >     > > >
> > >     > > > First you have to decide if the main purpose is to select the
> > >     active layer or to change the color layer.
> > >     > > > The answer will give also the answer to "Why can't ours".
> > >     > > >
> > >     > > > For me the answer is not obvious, but my opinion is:
> > >     > > > the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the
> > >     working layer.
> > >     > > > Therefore the single left click should change the layer,
> > >     whatever you are clicking.
> > >     > > >
> > >     > > > If the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the
> > >     color, then a single left click should
> > >     > > > open the color dialog.
> > >     > >
> > >     > > This isn't "the layer manager", it's a color well IN the layer
> > >     manager.
> > >     > >
> > >     > > >
> > >     > > > If the single left click opens the dialog, be sure many times,
> > >     when clicking inside the layer
> > >     > > > manager, you will open the dialog, instead of changing the
> > >     active layer, especially if you are too
> > >     > > > busy clicking on the window to verify the exact position of
> > >     the mouse.
> > >     > > > (It frequently happened to me when the single click was
> > >     opening the dialog)
> > >     > > >
> > >     > > > A wise decision is never obvious.
> > >     > > > (A reason like "other applications do that" is not necessary a
> > >     good reason.
> > >     > > > Each application has its constraints and its compromises)
> > >     > >
> > >     > > YES IT IS. Consistency is the single most important way to make
> > an
> > >     > > interface understandable. A box containing a color is a color
> > >     well, and
> > >     > > color wells behave the exact same way in everything that isn't
> > >     kicad.
> > >     > >
> > >     > > Next you'll tell me "File->Open opening a file in other
> > >     applications is
> > >     > > not a good reason it shouldn't display a photo of a llama in
> > KiCad".
> > >     > >
> > >     > > >
> > >     > > > >
> > >     > > > >>
> > >     > > > >> On 2/21/2017 8:04 AM, John Beard wrote:
> > >     > > > >>> Hi,
> > >     > > > >>>
> > >     > > > >>> These patches fix the layer/render widget swatches in
> > >     Linux under new
> > >     > > > >>> GTK+ toolkits. Fix for:
> > >     https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411
> > >     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411>
> > >     > > > >>>
> > >     > > > >>> The patches remove the "button" nature of the swatches,
> > >     since they
> > >     > > > >>> weren't actually actuated by a single click, so the button
> > >     affordance
> > >     > > > >>> was misleading anyway. Also on OSX, the button was
> > >     invisible, so it
> > >     > > > >>> just looked like a flat swatch anyway.
> > >     > > > >>>
> > >     > > > >>> * Linux as it was:
> > >     > > > >>>
> > >     https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view
> > >     <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view>
> > >     > > > >>> * OSX as it was:
> > >     > > > >>>
> > >     https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot%
> > 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png
> > >     <https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot%
> > 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png>
> > >     > > > >>> * Linux after this patch: see attachment
> > >     > > > >>>
> > >     > > > >>> This is followed by a refactor to pull the swatch logic
> > >     out of the
> > >     > > > >>> layer widget into common, where it can be used by other
> > >     clients, for
> > >     > > > >>> example the eeschema display color dialog, if wanted.
> > >     > > > >>>
> > >     > > > >>> Patch #3 is a simple replacement of old WX Connect with
> > >     Bind for
> > >     > > > >>> consistency in that file.
> > >     > > > >>>
> > >     > > > >>> Cheers,
> > >     > > > >>>
> > >     > > > >>> John
> > >     > > > >>>
> > >     > > > >>>
> > >     > > > >>>
> > >     > > > >>> _______________________________________________
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> > >     > > > >>>
> > >     > > > >>
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> > >     > > > >
> > >     > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > >     > > > >
> > >     > > >
> > >     > > >
> > >     > > > --
> > >     > > > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> > >     > > >
> > >     > > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
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