kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>]

Why don't I remember that?  It must not have been that way for very
long.  In any event, I'm actually fine with changing it to a single left
click.  We could always undo it if user's absolutely hate it.

On 2/21/2017 1:43 PM, Simon Wells wrote:
> there was a time where it was single click changes colour and there
> were no complaints that i saw. JP changed it without consultation or
> comment on the list
> 
> On 22 February 2017 at 07:30, Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 01:26:17PM -0500, Jon Evans wrote:
>>> Yeah, this is going to be a problem any time there is a situation where
>>> KiCad does it differently than "the standard", but has been doing it that
>>> way forever.  No easy fix that pleases both the old users and the new
>>> users.  Other open source software has had this problem too (GIMP, etc)
>>
>> A part of me really wants to fork KiCad, spend a year or so removing ALL
>> these silly KiCadisms that "users will howl about", and release it as a
>> new de-crustified project with the understanding that everything will be
>> different because everything was stupid before. I bet *checks sofa*
>> $3.24 that users would flock to it.
>>
>> Sadly, that part of me lives in a fantasy world where days have 48 hours
>> and I get paid megabucks to sit on my butt.
>>
>>>
>>> My own thoughts on the matter are that I want to never have to change layer
>>> using the layer picker, and always have it hidden.  Based on the behavior
>>> of other tools I have used, I think that it is possible to greatly reduce
>>> the need to manually change layers, and especially to do so with the mouse
>>> rather than a hotkey.
>>>
>>> -Jon
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I can just hear users howling already when they left click the color
>>>> swatch thinking that they are selecting the layer and then have to
>>>> dismiss the color select dialog to continue working.  If we cannot come
>>>> up with a better solution, it may be best to leave sleeping dogs lie.  I
>>>> wonder how many of the 75% of voters in the poll would response to
>>>> having to dismiss the color selection dialog every time they
>>>> inadvertently left clicked the color button?  This may be a case of
>>>> ignorance being bliss.
>>>>
>>>> On 2/21/2017 12:54 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
>>>>> FWIW, this is what my expecations were as a new user when I started with
>>>>> KiCad (for what would happen with a single left-click) based on how
>>>>> things work in other applications with layer managers I have used (ECAD,
>>>>> graphics, etc):
>>>>>
>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/Euh2Gjwl.png
>>>>>
>>>>> -Jon
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     By the way.
>>>>>
>>>>>     https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer-
>>>> manager/5421 <https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer-
>>>> manager/5421>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Feel free to add your own responses. The results look pretty
>>>> conclusive
>>>>>     right now ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>     On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:40:05AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>>>>>     > Sent to wrong recipient.
>>>>>     >
>>>>>     > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:38:43AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>>>>>     > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 05:24:14PM +0100, jp charras wrote:
>>>>>     > > > Le 21/02/2017 à 16:07, Chris Pavlina a écrit :
>>>>>     > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 09:35:34AM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>     > > > >> My only issue with this change is that the tooltip letting
>>>>>     the user know
>>>>>     > > > >> that a left button double click or a middle button click
>>>>>     would allow
>>>>>     > > > >> them to change the color is gone.  Other than that, it
>>>>>     looks great.  I
>>>>>     > > > >> like the use of Bind instead of Connect.  Bind has a much
>>>>>     cleaner
>>>>>     > > > >> interface than Connect and according to the wx folks is the
>>>>>     proper way
>>>>>     > > > >> to handle events.
>>>>>     > > > >
>>>>>     > > > > The tooltip is useless, nobody is going to hover over them
>>>>>     for long
>>>>>     > > > > enough to see it. I was just talking to someone this morning
>>>>>     who never
>>>>>     > > > > found the tooltip because he was too busy clicking on the
>>>>>     buttons to
>>>>>     > > > > make them work.
>>>>>     > > > >
>>>>>     > > > > Every other color well in every other application opens its
>>>>>     selection
>>>>>     > > > > dialog with a single left click. Why can't ours?
>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>     > > > First you have to decide if the main purpose is to select the
>>>>>     active layer or to change the color layer.
>>>>>     > > > The answer will give also the answer to "Why can't ours".
>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>     > > > For me the answer is not obvious, but my opinion is:
>>>>>     > > > the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the
>>>>>     working layer.
>>>>>     > > > Therefore the single left click should change the layer,
>>>>>     whatever you are clicking.
>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>     > > > If the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the
>>>>>     color, then a single left click should
>>>>>     > > > open the color dialog.
>>>>>     > >
>>>>>     > > This isn't "the layer manager", it's a color well IN the layer
>>>>>     manager.
>>>>>     > >
>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>     > > > If the single left click opens the dialog, be sure many times,
>>>>>     when clicking inside the layer
>>>>>     > > > manager, you will open the dialog, instead of changing the
>>>>>     active layer, especially if you are too
>>>>>     > > > busy clicking on the window to verify the exact position of
>>>>>     the mouse.
>>>>>     > > > (It frequently happened to me when the single click was
>>>>>     opening the dialog)
>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>     > > > A wise decision is never obvious.
>>>>>     > > > (A reason like "other applications do that" is not necessary a
>>>>>     good reason.
>>>>>     > > > Each application has its constraints and its compromises)
>>>>>     > >
>>>>>     > > YES IT IS. Consistency is the single most important way to make
>>>> an
>>>>>     > > interface understandable. A box containing a color is a color
>>>>>     well, and
>>>>>     > > color wells behave the exact same way in everything that isn't
>>>>>     kicad.
>>>>>     > >
>>>>>     > > Next you'll tell me "File->Open opening a file in other
>>>>>     applications is
>>>>>     > > not a good reason it shouldn't display a photo of a llama in
>>>> KiCad".
>>>>>     > >
>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>     > > > >
>>>>>     > > > >>
>>>>>     > > > >> On 2/21/2017 8:04 AM, John Beard wrote:
>>>>>     > > > >>> Hi,
>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>     > > > >>> These patches fix the layer/render widget swatches in
>>>>>     Linux under new
>>>>>     > > > >>> GTK+ toolkits. Fix for:
>>>>>     https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411
>>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411>
>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>     > > > >>> The patches remove the "button" nature of the swatches,
>>>>>     since they
>>>>>     > > > >>> weren't actually actuated by a single click, so the button
>>>>>     affordance
>>>>>     > > > >>> was misleading anyway. Also on OSX, the button was
>>>>>     invisible, so it
>>>>>     > > > >>> just looked like a flat swatch anyway.
>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>     > > > >>> * Linux as it was:
>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>     https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view
>>>>>     <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view>
>>>>>     > > > >>> * OSX as it was:
>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>     https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot%
>>>> 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png
>>>>>     <https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot%
>>>> 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png>
>>>>>     > > > >>> * Linux after this patch: see attachment
>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>     > > > >>> This is followed by a refactor to pull the swatch logic
>>>>>     out of the
>>>>>     > > > >>> layer widget into common, where it can be used by other
>>>>>     clients, for
>>>>>     > > > >>> example the eeschema display color dialog, if wanted.
>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>     > > > >>> Patch #3 is a simple replacement of old WX Connect with
>>>>>     Bind for
>>>>>     > > > >>> consistency in that file.
>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>     > > > >>> Cheers,
>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>     > > > >>> John
>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>     > > > >>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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>>>>>     <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>     > > > >>
>>>>>     > > > >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>     > > > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>     > > > >> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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>>>>>     > > > >
>>>>>     > > > > _______________________________________________
>>>>>     > > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>     > > > > Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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>>>>>     > > > >
>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>     > > > --
>>>>>     > > > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>     > > > _______________________________________________
>>>>>     > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>     > > > Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>     > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>     > > > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>     <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>
>>
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