kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Simon Wells <swel024@xxxxxxxxx>]

haha your advanced life experience must be getting to you.... you even
commented on it when it was last bought up on the list
https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg23387.html

On 22 February 2017 at 12:39, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Why don't I remember that?  It must not have been that way for very
> long.  In any event, I'm actually fine with changing it to a single left
> click.  We could always undo it if user's absolutely hate it.
>
> On 2/21/2017 1:43 PM, Simon Wells wrote:
>> there was a time where it was single click changes colour and there
>> were no complaints that i saw. JP changed it without consultation or
>> comment on the list
>>
>> On 22 February 2017 at 07:30, Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 01:26:17PM -0500, Jon Evans wrote:
>>>> Yeah, this is going to be a problem any time there is a situation where
>>>> KiCad does it differently than "the standard", but has been doing it that
>>>> way forever.  No easy fix that pleases both the old users and the new
>>>> users.  Other open source software has had this problem too (GIMP, etc)
>>>
>>> A part of me really wants to fork KiCad, spend a year or so removing ALL
>>> these silly KiCadisms that "users will howl about", and release it as a
>>> new de-crustified project with the understanding that everything will be
>>> different because everything was stupid before. I bet *checks sofa*
>>> $3.24 that users would flock to it.
>>>
>>> Sadly, that part of me lives in a fantasy world where days have 48 hours
>>> and I get paid megabucks to sit on my butt.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> My own thoughts on the matter are that I want to never have to change layer
>>>> using the layer picker, and always have it hidden.  Based on the behavior
>>>> of other tools I have used, I think that it is possible to greatly reduce
>>>> the need to manually change layers, and especially to do so with the mouse
>>>> rather than a hotkey.
>>>>
>>>> -Jon
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I can just hear users howling already when they left click the color
>>>>> swatch thinking that they are selecting the layer and then have to
>>>>> dismiss the color select dialog to continue working.  If we cannot come
>>>>> up with a better solution, it may be best to leave sleeping dogs lie.  I
>>>>> wonder how many of the 75% of voters in the poll would response to
>>>>> having to dismiss the color selection dialog every time they
>>>>> inadvertently left clicked the color button?  This may be a case of
>>>>> ignorance being bliss.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/21/2017 12:54 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
>>>>>> FWIW, this is what my expecations were as a new user when I started with
>>>>>> KiCad (for what would happen with a single left-click) based on how
>>>>>> things work in other applications with layer managers I have used (ECAD,
>>>>>> graphics, etc):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/Euh2Gjwl.png
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Jon
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     By the way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer-
>>>>> manager/5421 <https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer-
>>>>> manager/5421>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Feel free to add your own responses. The results look pretty
>>>>> conclusive
>>>>>>     right now ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:40:05AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>>>>>>     > Sent to wrong recipient.
>>>>>>     >
>>>>>>     > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:38:43AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>>>>>>     > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 05:24:14PM +0100, jp charras wrote:
>>>>>>     > > > Le 21/02/2017 à 16:07, Chris Pavlina a écrit :
>>>>>>     > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 09:35:34AM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>     > > > >> My only issue with this change is that the tooltip letting
>>>>>>     the user know
>>>>>>     > > > >> that a left button double click or a middle button click
>>>>>>     would allow
>>>>>>     > > > >> them to change the color is gone.  Other than that, it
>>>>>>     looks great.  I
>>>>>>     > > > >> like the use of Bind instead of Connect.  Bind has a much
>>>>>>     cleaner
>>>>>>     > > > >> interface than Connect and according to the wx folks is the
>>>>>>     proper way
>>>>>>     > > > >> to handle events.
>>>>>>     > > > >
>>>>>>     > > > > The tooltip is useless, nobody is going to hover over them
>>>>>>     for long
>>>>>>     > > > > enough to see it. I was just talking to someone this morning
>>>>>>     who never
>>>>>>     > > > > found the tooltip because he was too busy clicking on the
>>>>>>     buttons to
>>>>>>     > > > > make them work.
>>>>>>     > > > >
>>>>>>     > > > > Every other color well in every other application opens its
>>>>>>     selection
>>>>>>     > > > > dialog with a single left click. Why can't ours?
>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>     > > > First you have to decide if the main purpose is to select the
>>>>>>     active layer or to change the color layer.
>>>>>>     > > > The answer will give also the answer to "Why can't ours".
>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>     > > > For me the answer is not obvious, but my opinion is:
>>>>>>     > > > the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the
>>>>>>     working layer.
>>>>>>     > > > Therefore the single left click should change the layer,
>>>>>>     whatever you are clicking.
>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>     > > > If the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the
>>>>>>     color, then a single left click should
>>>>>>     > > > open the color dialog.
>>>>>>     > >
>>>>>>     > > This isn't "the layer manager", it's a color well IN the layer
>>>>>>     manager.
>>>>>>     > >
>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>     > > > If the single left click opens the dialog, be sure many times,
>>>>>>     when clicking inside the layer
>>>>>>     > > > manager, you will open the dialog, instead of changing the
>>>>>>     active layer, especially if you are too
>>>>>>     > > > busy clicking on the window to verify the exact position of
>>>>>>     the mouse.
>>>>>>     > > > (It frequently happened to me when the single click was
>>>>>>     opening the dialog)
>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>     > > > A wise decision is never obvious.
>>>>>>     > > > (A reason like "other applications do that" is not necessary a
>>>>>>     good reason.
>>>>>>     > > > Each application has its constraints and its compromises)
>>>>>>     > >
>>>>>>     > > YES IT IS. Consistency is the single most important way to make
>>>>> an
>>>>>>     > > interface understandable. A box containing a color is a color
>>>>>>     well, and
>>>>>>     > > color wells behave the exact same way in everything that isn't
>>>>>>     kicad.
>>>>>>     > >
>>>>>>     > > Next you'll tell me "File->Open opening a file in other
>>>>>>     applications is
>>>>>>     > > not a good reason it shouldn't display a photo of a llama in
>>>>> KiCad".
>>>>>>     > >
>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>     > > > >
>>>>>>     > > > >>
>>>>>>     > > > >> On 2/21/2017 8:04 AM, John Beard wrote:
>>>>>>     > > > >>> Hi,
>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>     > > > >>> These patches fix the layer/render widget swatches in
>>>>>>     Linux under new
>>>>>>     > > > >>> GTK+ toolkits. Fix for:
>>>>>>     https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411
>>>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411>
>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>     > > > >>> The patches remove the "button" nature of the swatches,
>>>>>>     since they
>>>>>>     > > > >>> weren't actually actuated by a single click, so the button
>>>>>>     affordance
>>>>>>     > > > >>> was misleading anyway. Also on OSX, the button was
>>>>>>     invisible, so it
>>>>>>     > > > >>> just looked like a flat swatch anyway.
>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>     > > > >>> * Linux as it was:
>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>     https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view
>>>>>>     <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view>
>>>>>>     > > > >>> * OSX as it was:
>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>     https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot%
>>>>> 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png
>>>>>>     <https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot%
>>>>> 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png>
>>>>>>     > > > >>> * Linux after this patch: see attachment
>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>     > > > >>> This is followed by a refactor to pull the swatch logic
>>>>>>     out of the
>>>>>>     > > > >>> layer widget into common, where it can be used by other
>>>>>>     clients, for
>>>>>>     > > > >>> example the eeschema display color dialog, if wanted.
>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>     > > > >>> Patch #3 is a simple replacement of old WX Connect with
>>>>>>     Bind for
>>>>>>     > > > >>> consistency in that file.
>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>     > > > >>> Cheers,
>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>     > > > >>> John
>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>     > > > >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>     > > > >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>     > > > >>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>     > > > >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>     > > > >>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>     <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>     > > > >>
>>>>>>     > > > >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>     > > > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>     > > > >> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>     > > > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>     > > > >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>     <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>>>     > > > >
>>>>>>     > > > > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>     > > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>     > > > > Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>     > > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>     > > > > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>     <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>>>     > > > >
>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>     > > > --
>>>>>>     > > > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>     > > > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>     > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>     > > > Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>     > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>     > > > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>     <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>     Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>     Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>     Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>     More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>     <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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