kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>]

That hasn't worked for me yet!

On 2/21/2017 7:02 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> This is why I work on KiCad, I figure if I spend enough time on this
> I'll never make it to old age >:)
> 
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 06:45:10PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>> It's hell getting old! :)
>>
>> On 2/21/2017 6:43 PM, Simon Wells wrote:
>>> haha your advanced life experience must be getting to you.... you even
>>> commented on it when it was last bought up on the list
>>> https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg23387.html
>>>
>>> On 22 February 2017 at 12:39, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> Why don't I remember that?  It must not have been that way for very
>>>> long.  In any event, I'm actually fine with changing it to a single left
>>>> click.  We could always undo it if user's absolutely hate it.
>>>>
>>>> On 2/21/2017 1:43 PM, Simon Wells wrote:
>>>>> there was a time where it was single click changes colour and there
>>>>> were no complaints that i saw. JP changed it without consultation or
>>>>> comment on the list
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22 February 2017 at 07:30, Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 01:26:17PM -0500, Jon Evans wrote:
>>>>>>> Yeah, this is going to be a problem any time there is a situation where
>>>>>>> KiCad does it differently than "the standard", but has been doing it that
>>>>>>> way forever.  No easy fix that pleases both the old users and the new
>>>>>>> users.  Other open source software has had this problem too (GIMP, etc)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A part of me really wants to fork KiCad, spend a year or so removing ALL
>>>>>> these silly KiCadisms that "users will howl about", and release it as a
>>>>>> new de-crustified project with the understanding that everything will be
>>>>>> different because everything was stupid before. I bet *checks sofa*
>>>>>> $3.24 that users would flock to it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sadly, that part of me lives in a fantasy world where days have 48 hours
>>>>>> and I get paid megabucks to sit on my butt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My own thoughts on the matter are that I want to never have to change layer
>>>>>>> using the layer picker, and always have it hidden.  Based on the behavior
>>>>>>> of other tools I have used, I think that it is possible to greatly reduce
>>>>>>> the need to manually change layers, and especially to do so with the mouse
>>>>>>> rather than a hotkey.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Jon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can just hear users howling already when they left click the color
>>>>>>>> swatch thinking that they are selecting the layer and then have to
>>>>>>>> dismiss the color select dialog to continue working.  If we cannot come
>>>>>>>> up with a better solution, it may be best to leave sleeping dogs lie.  I
>>>>>>>> wonder how many of the 75% of voters in the poll would response to
>>>>>>>> having to dismiss the color selection dialog every time they
>>>>>>>> inadvertently left clicked the color button?  This may be a case of
>>>>>>>> ignorance being bliss.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/21/2017 12:54 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
>>>>>>>>> FWIW, this is what my expecations were as a new user when I started with
>>>>>>>>> KiCad (for what would happen with a single left-click) based on how
>>>>>>>>> things work in other applications with layer managers I have used (ECAD,
>>>>>>>>> graphics, etc):
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/Euh2Gjwl.png
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Jon
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     By the way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer-
>>>>>>>> manager/5421 <https://forum.kicad.info/t/developer-feedback-poll-layer-
>>>>>>>> manager/5421>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     Feel free to add your own responses. The results look pretty
>>>>>>>> conclusive
>>>>>>>>>     right now ;)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:40:05AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>>>>>>>>>     > Sent to wrong recipient.
>>>>>>>>>     >
>>>>>>>>>     > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:38:43AM -0500, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>>>>>>>>>     > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 05:24:14PM +0100, jp charras wrote:
>>>>>>>>>     > > > Le 21/02/2017 à 16:07, Chris Pavlina a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>     > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 09:35:34AM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >> My only issue with this change is that the tooltip letting
>>>>>>>>>     the user know
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >> that a left button double click or a middle button click
>>>>>>>>>     would allow
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >> them to change the color is gone.  Other than that, it
>>>>>>>>>     looks great.  I
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >> like the use of Bind instead of Connect.  Bind has a much
>>>>>>>>>     cleaner
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >> interface than Connect and according to the wx folks is the
>>>>>>>>>     proper way
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >> to handle events.
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > > > The tooltip is useless, nobody is going to hover over them
>>>>>>>>>     for long
>>>>>>>>>     > > > > enough to see it. I was just talking to someone this morning
>>>>>>>>>     who never
>>>>>>>>>     > > > > found the tooltip because he was too busy clicking on the
>>>>>>>>>     buttons to
>>>>>>>>>     > > > > make them work.
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > > > Every other color well in every other application opens its
>>>>>>>>>     selection
>>>>>>>>>     > > > > dialog with a single left click. Why can't ours?
>>>>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > > First you have to decide if the main purpose is to select the
>>>>>>>>>     active layer or to change the color layer.
>>>>>>>>>     > > > The answer will give also the answer to "Why can't ours".
>>>>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > > For me the answer is not obvious, but my opinion is:
>>>>>>>>>     > > > the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the
>>>>>>>>>     working layer.
>>>>>>>>>     > > > Therefore the single left click should change the layer,
>>>>>>>>>     whatever you are clicking.
>>>>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > > If the primary purpose of the layer manager is to select the
>>>>>>>>>     color, then a single left click should
>>>>>>>>>     > > > open the color dialog.
>>>>>>>>>     > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > This isn't "the layer manager", it's a color well IN the layer
>>>>>>>>>     manager.
>>>>>>>>>     > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > > If the single left click opens the dialog, be sure many times,
>>>>>>>>>     when clicking inside the layer
>>>>>>>>>     > > > manager, you will open the dialog, instead of changing the
>>>>>>>>>     active layer, especially if you are too
>>>>>>>>>     > > > busy clicking on the window to verify the exact position of
>>>>>>>>>     the mouse.
>>>>>>>>>     > > > (It frequently happened to me when the single click was
>>>>>>>>>     opening the dialog)
>>>>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > > A wise decision is never obvious.
>>>>>>>>>     > > > (A reason like "other applications do that" is not necessary a
>>>>>>>>>     good reason.
>>>>>>>>>     > > > Each application has its constraints and its compromises)
>>>>>>>>>     > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > YES IT IS. Consistency is the single most important way to make
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>     > > interface understandable. A box containing a color is a color
>>>>>>>>>     well, and
>>>>>>>>>     > > color wells behave the exact same way in everything that isn't
>>>>>>>>>     kicad.
>>>>>>>>>     > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > Next you'll tell me "File->Open opening a file in other
>>>>>>>>>     applications is
>>>>>>>>>     > > not a good reason it shouldn't display a photo of a llama in
>>>>>>>> KiCad".
>>>>>>>>>     > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >> On 2/21/2017 8:04 AM, John Beard wrote:
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> These patches fix the layer/render widget swatches in
>>>>>>>>>     Linux under new
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> GTK+ toolkits. Fix for:
>>>>>>>>>     https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411
>>>>>>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1605411>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> The patches remove the "button" nature of the swatches,
>>>>>>>>>     since they
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> weren't actually actuated by a single click, so the button
>>>>>>>>>     affordance
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> was misleading anyway. Also on OSX, the button was
>>>>>>>>>     invisible, so it
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> just looked like a flat swatch anyway.
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> * Linux as it was:
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>>>>     https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view
>>>>>>>>>     <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxVhl5qZbpYoZlZPeXV1Q0ttT2s/view>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> * OSX as it was:
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>>>>     https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot%
>>>>>>>> 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png
>>>>>>>>>     <https://launchpadlibrarian.net/274428737/Screen%20Shot%
>>>>>>>> 202016-07-22%20at%2019.40.14.png>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> * Linux after this patch: see attachment
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> This is followed by a refactor to pull the swatch logic
>>>>>>>>>     out of the
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> layer widget into common, where it can be used by other
>>>>>>>>>     clients, for
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> example the eeschema display color dialog, if wanted.
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> Patch #3 is a simple replacement of old WX Connect with
>>>>>>>>>     Bind for
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> consistency in that file.
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> John
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>>>     <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>>>     <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > > > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>     > > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > > Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>>>     <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > > --
>>>>>>>>>     > > > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>>>>>>>>>     > > >
>>>>>>>>>     > > > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>     > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>>>>     > > > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>>>     <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>     Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>>>>     Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>     Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>>>>>>     More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>>>     <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp