kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>]

Ah, interesting. This is a ... fiddly distinction, I don't like it. This
is one case where I think we really should _not_ follow.

I'm still not flipping from component back to symbol myself though -
this is just Altium. The rest of them still mostly use "component",
right?

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 09:19:45AM -0400, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
> Here is the Altium library documentation:
> 
> http://www.altium.com/documentation/17.0/display/ADES/((More+about+Components+and+Libraries))_AD
> 
> Interestingly the terms component, part, symbol, model, and footprint
> are all mentioned.
> 
> It appears that the folks at Altium have answered the is it a symbol or
> component question:
> 
> http://www.altium.com/documentation/17.0/display/ADES/((Understanding+Models,+Components+and+Libraries))_AD#!UnderstandingModelsComponentsandLibraries-IsitaSymboloraComponent
> 
> I was looking at the top level documentation where I saw the term
> component.  Maybe symbol would be an acceptable term.  In our case it
> certainly would be more accurate.  The only real difference is in the
> level of detail added to the the schematic symbol that determines the
> symbol/component difference and it's pretty grey definition at best.  I
> retract my original statement and go with my preference of symbol.
> 
> On 3/23/2017 9:05 AM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> > Many of them actually don't have that notion. Surprisingly enough,
> > Altium of all things has a system that is remarkably similar to our own,
> > just with a different library management discipline applied in their
> > standard library.
> > 
> > On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 01:50:08AM +1300, Simon Wells wrote:
> >> Do most of the other EDA packages not refer to a component as
> >> something that combines a symbol AND a footprint though?
> >>
> >> On 24 March 2017 at 01:34, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>> I'm going to weigh in on this because this has been on my radar with the
> >>> symbol library table work I've been doing.  I do agree that we need to
> >>> pick one term and use it consistently.  My preference is the term symbol
> >>> because in my mind this is a component[1] and this is symbolic
> >>> representation[2] of a component ergo symbol.  However, I spent some
> >>> time this week checking out the documentation for all of the major and
> >>> quite a few minor EDA applications and they *all* use the term component
> >>> when talking about libraries.  This makes me think that for the sake of
> >>> uniformity with other EDA applications, we should use the term
> >>> component.  While I'm not a proponent of doing something just because
> >>> that's what everyone else is doing, in this case using the term
> >>> component may make users coming from other EDA apps a bit more
> >>> comfortable.  Personally, I'm comfortable with either term but maybe we
> >>> should not stray to far from the norm here.
> >>>
> >>> [1]:
> >>> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/stackpole-electronics-inc/CF14JT10K0/CF14JT10K0TR-ND/1741265
> >>> [2]: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Resistor_symbol_America.svg
> >>>
> >>> On 3/23/2017 7:52 AM, Thor-Arne Hovland wrote:
> >>>> Symbol has been used as long as I can remember.
> >>>>
> >>>> The proper names should probably be defined to avoid confusion.
> >>>>
> >>>> In my book:
> >>>> A "symbol" is a generic repesentation for drawing a schematic,
> >>>> and that is whats used in eeschema right now.
> >>>>
> >>>> A "footprint" is the pads and silkscreen ++ used in pcbnew.
> >>>>
> >>>> A "housing" is the physical package i.e. the 3D model.
> >>>>
> >>>> The current way of doing things is a bit confusing and causes
> >>>> many "symbols" to be reused in the library.
> >>>> This is not effective when someting is to be changed.
> >>>>
> >>>> It could be a good idea to introduce a "part" that stores all the needed
> >>>> information like symbol, footprint, pin connections between symbol and
> >>>> footprint,
> >>>> 3D modell, documentation.
> >>>>
> >>>> This might be more intuitive for new user who I see repeatedly trying to
> >>>> match a symbol
> >>>> with pins "G-S-D" to a footprint with pins "1-2-3".
> >>>>
> >>>> Just my 2 cent....
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Pavlina
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 3:30 AM
> >>>> To: Simon Wells
> >>>> Cc: KiCad Developers
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] UI improvements
> >>>>
> >>>> Are we calling them "symbols" now? Internally they are called with
> >>>> "components" or "parts" depending on whether they are on a schematic...
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 03:25:03PM +1300, Simon Wells wrote:
> >>>>> just a slight segue.... is it not better to refer to symbols rather
> >>>>> than components? as with the footprints being seperated from the
> >>>>> symbols i don't see the justification for calling it a component (will
> >>>>> also require renaming other stuff)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 23 March 2017 at 12:12, Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 11:53:40PM +0100, Clemens Koller wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hello, Fabrizio!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The horizontal + vertical justify radio buttons could possibly be
> >>>>>>> improved by showing the alignment visually as it's done in [1] by
> >>>>> using >> a 3 x 3 radio button matrix. It can also reduce the number of
> >>>>> clicks to >> 1 to adjust hor + vert simultaneously.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The timestamp is not human readable. It seems strange to me to dump
> >>>>> it >> as hex-number on the UI. (WTF!?)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm struggling to think of a use for this. Maybe for power users, to
> >>>>>> jump quickly to the component in the raw sch file by searching for it -
> >>>>>> but why not just search for the reference?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I wonder how many people would complain if I took that out.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The Component/Chip Name thingy seems to be lost a bit on the lower
> >>>>>>> left. Maybe some sorting of the elements based on the usage/setup
> >>>>>>> procedure as well as logic dependency could do some good.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Clemens
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [1] https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/File:WG9-9.png
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 2017-03-22 10:32, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
> >>>>>>>> hi guys,
> >>>>>>>> I am looking at some new icons that were introduced in kicad by
> >>>>> the >> > people who made the related functionalities and at the user
> >>>>>>>> experience in general. If any of you guys has any feedback about
> >>>>>>>> possible (aesthetic) UI improvements I would love to know.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Specifically I am looking at this menu.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Inline image 1
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> the section "Chip Name" is a part that I use a lot and I find a
> >>>>>>>> little "mysterious". Before going further with a possible patch
> >>>>> to >> > improve a little the usability of it I would like to know if
> >>>>> there is >> > any of you interesting in giving an opinion. I would
> >>>>> love to know >> > from the person who made it what exactly is the Chip
> >>>>> Name section >> > for. I feel it is not so evident to the user.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> cheers
> >>>>>>>> Fabrizio
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
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> >>>
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> >>
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