kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Simon Wells <swel024@xxxxxxxxx>]

one of the things that irks me about component is even though its
meant to only be schematic being component libs a lot of the questions
asked in irc will state component when they use that as either a
generic term for symbols AND footprints or sometimes footprints only,
as to some i guess thats still part of a "component definition".

If at some point down the line we did introduce some sort of package
that was symbol/footprint/model/spice/....... i think that would be a
much better thing to call a component.

On 24 March 2017 at 02:30, Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Ah, interesting. This is a ... fiddly distinction, I don't like it. This
> is one case where I think we really should _not_ follow.
>
> I'm still not flipping from component back to symbol myself though -
> this is just Altium. The rest of them still mostly use "component",
> right?
>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 09:19:45AM -0400, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>> Here is the Altium library documentation:
>>
>> http://www.altium.com/documentation/17.0/display/ADES/((More+about+Components+and+Libraries))_AD
>>
>> Interestingly the terms component, part, symbol, model, and footprint
>> are all mentioned.
>>
>> It appears that the folks at Altium have answered the is it a symbol or
>> component question:
>>
>> http://www.altium.com/documentation/17.0/display/ADES/((Understanding+Models,+Components+and+Libraries))_AD#!UnderstandingModelsComponentsandLibraries-IsitaSymboloraComponent
>>
>> I was looking at the top level documentation where I saw the term
>> component.  Maybe symbol would be an acceptable term.  In our case it
>> certainly would be more accurate.  The only real difference is in the
>> level of detail added to the the schematic symbol that determines the
>> symbol/component difference and it's pretty grey definition at best.  I
>> retract my original statement and go with my preference of symbol.
>>
>> On 3/23/2017 9:05 AM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>> > Many of them actually don't have that notion. Surprisingly enough,
>> > Altium of all things has a system that is remarkably similar to our own,
>> > just with a different library management discipline applied in their
>> > standard library.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 01:50:08AM +1300, Simon Wells wrote:
>> >> Do most of the other EDA packages not refer to a component as
>> >> something that combines a symbol AND a footprint though?
>> >>
>> >> On 24 March 2017 at 01:34, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>> I'm going to weigh in on this because this has been on my radar with the
>> >>> symbol library table work I've been doing.  I do agree that we need to
>> >>> pick one term and use it consistently.  My preference is the term symbol
>> >>> because in my mind this is a component[1] and this is symbolic
>> >>> representation[2] of a component ergo symbol.  However, I spent some
>> >>> time this week checking out the documentation for all of the major and
>> >>> quite a few minor EDA applications and they *all* use the term component
>> >>> when talking about libraries.  This makes me think that for the sake of
>> >>> uniformity with other EDA applications, we should use the term
>> >>> component.  While I'm not a proponent of doing something just because
>> >>> that's what everyone else is doing, in this case using the term
>> >>> component may make users coming from other EDA apps a bit more
>> >>> comfortable.  Personally, I'm comfortable with either term but maybe we
>> >>> should not stray to far from the norm here.
>> >>>
>> >>> [1]:
>> >>> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/stackpole-electronics-inc/CF14JT10K0/CF14JT10K0TR-ND/1741265
>> >>> [2]: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Resistor_symbol_America.svg
>> >>>
>> >>> On 3/23/2017 7:52 AM, Thor-Arne Hovland wrote:
>> >>>> Symbol has been used as long as I can remember.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The proper names should probably be defined to avoid confusion.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In my book:
>> >>>> A "symbol" is a generic repesentation for drawing a schematic,
>> >>>> and that is whats used in eeschema right now.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> A "footprint" is the pads and silkscreen ++ used in pcbnew.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> A "housing" is the physical package i.e. the 3D model.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The current way of doing things is a bit confusing and causes
>> >>>> many "symbols" to be reused in the library.
>> >>>> This is not effective when someting is to be changed.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It could be a good idea to introduce a "part" that stores all the needed
>> >>>> information like symbol, footprint, pin connections between symbol and
>> >>>> footprint,
>> >>>> 3D modell, documentation.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This might be more intuitive for new user who I see repeatedly trying to
>> >>>> match a symbol
>> >>>> with pins "G-S-D" to a footprint with pins "1-2-3".
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Just my 2 cent....
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Pavlina
>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 3:30 AM
>> >>>> To: Simon Wells
>> >>>> Cc: KiCad Developers
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] UI improvements
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Are we calling them "symbols" now? Internally they are called with
>> >>>> "components" or "parts" depending on whether they are on a schematic...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 03:25:03PM +1300, Simon Wells wrote:
>> >>>>> just a slight segue.... is it not better to refer to symbols rather
>> >>>>> than components? as with the footprints being seperated from the
>> >>>>> symbols i don't see the justification for calling it a component (will
>> >>>>> also require renaming other stuff)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 23 March 2017 at 12:12, Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 11:53:40PM +0100, Clemens Koller wrote:
>> >>>>>>> Hello, Fabrizio!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> The horizontal + vertical justify radio buttons could possibly be
>> >>>>>>> improved by showing the alignment visually as it's done in [1] by
>> >>>>> using >> a 3 x 3 radio button matrix. It can also reduce the number of
>> >>>>> clicks to >> 1 to adjust hor + vert simultaneously.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> The timestamp is not human readable. It seems strange to me to dump
>> >>>>> it >> as hex-number on the UI. (WTF!?)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I'm struggling to think of a use for this. Maybe for power users, to
>> >>>>>> jump quickly to the component in the raw sch file by searching for it -
>> >>>>>> but why not just search for the reference?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I wonder how many people would complain if I took that out.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> The Component/Chip Name thingy seems to be lost a bit on the lower
>> >>>>>>> left. Maybe some sorting of the elements based on the usage/setup
>> >>>>>>> procedure as well as logic dependency could do some good.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Clemens
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> [1] https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/File:WG9-9.png
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 2017-03-22 10:32, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> hi guys,
>> >>>>>>>> I am looking at some new icons that were introduced in kicad by
>> >>>>> the >> > people who made the related functionalities and at the user
>> >>>>>>>> experience in general. If any of you guys has any feedback about
>> >>>>>>>> possible (aesthetic) UI improvements I would love to know.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Specifically I am looking at this menu.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Inline image 1
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> the section "Chip Name" is a part that I use a lot and I find a
>> >>>>>>>> little "mysterious". Before going further with a possible patch
>> >>>>> to >> > improve a little the usability of it I would like to know if
>> >>>>> there is >> > any of you interesting in giving an opinion. I would
>> >>>>> love to know >> > from the person who made it what exactly is the Chip
>> >>>>> Name section >> > for. I feel it is not so evident to the user.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> cheers
>> >>>>>>>> Fabrizio
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>>>
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