kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>]

This look good to me.  I'm fine with the unified menu icons.  If no one
has any objections, I will commit it.

On 7/20/2017 8:45 AM, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
> Hi Wayne,
> how are you? 
> 
> very cool. I have changed this patch so that everywhere: 
> 
> "Rotate 90 deg CW" -> "Rotate Clockwise"
> "Rotate 90 deg CCW" -> "Rotate Counterclockwise"
> 
> thanks a lot
> Fabrizio
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> 
>     On 7/19/2017 6:17 AM, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
>     > Hi Wayne,
>     > Thanks for the many messages. I did not know that devs were so into
>     > translation...
>     >
>     > My overall effort is to uniformise the Kicad UI and make it consistent
>     > and as correct as possible.
>     >
>     > Currently in Kicad we are using "Rotate 90 deg CW" and "Rotate 90 deg
>     > CCW" in many many menus (see below). This expression is also used in
>     > Inkscape, a pretty high standard software for vector image manipulation.
>     > I personally think that consistency is the most important aspect of my
>     > contributions and, despite loving internal conversations about
>     > translations, etc I think we need to pick what is considered the best
>     > expression and use it coherently in all kicad menus. I have the feeling
>     > that if I submit a similar patch in few months, this kind of discussion
>     > will come up again. In a way this is typical of open-source software, so
>     > maybe it is not a bad thing.
> 
>     I'm fine with consistent but consistently incorrect or confusing is no
>     better than inconsistent.
> 
>     >
>     > In my opinion I think it would be good not to reinvent expressions. I
>     > think "CW" and "CCW" is a perfectly understandable and usable expression.
> 
>     CW and CCW are not expressions.  They are abbreviations which may not be
>     understood outside of English.  I would prefer not to use abbreviations
>     except for units unless space is at a premium.  In this case, I don't
>     think there is a space issue.  Please use terms clockwise and
>     counterclockwise.  These are the correct English terms for rotation
>     direction.
> 
>     >
>     > The custom-defined rotation value is a new piece of info, thanks Wayne
>     > for that! does it apply to all rotations?
> 
>     This only applies when the user changes the default rotation angle from
>     90 to something else.  The rotation angle is fixed to 90 in the
>     schematic, symbol library, and footprint library editors and is user
>     configurable in the board editor.
> 
>     >
>     > Please advise how to modify this patch to make it submittable.
> 
>     Use clockwise and counter clockwise instead of CW and CCW.  Either
>     remove the 90 deg rotation angle or use the user rotation angle in the
>     board editor menu string.  I don't have a preference.
> 
>     >
>     > Cheers
>     > Fabrizio
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Inline image 1
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:47 AM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>
>     > <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>     >
>     >     On 7/18/2017 8:24 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>     >     >> (remember, this is localization, not literal translation)
>     >     >
>     >     > Thank you! en_US should be "counterclockwise" and "clockwise" (or
>     >     > even CCW/CW would be easily understood), and different phrasings
>     >     > should be used in different languages. Don't avoid "clockwise" in
>     >     > English because the French don't use it. It's up to the translators
>     >     > to decide how things should be phrased in their locale.
>     >
>     >     Yes!  This is how it should be done.
>     >
>     >     >
>     >     > On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 07:19:35PM -0500, José Ignacio wrote:
>     >     >> Clockwise and counter-clockwise are the most usual term in American
>     >     >> Engish, other localizations should use the most usual term in their
>     >     >> respective locales (remember, this is localization, not literal
>     >     >> translation). For example in Argentinian Spanish it should be
>     >     >> "Horario" and "Antihorario". Encoding information in the icons only
>     >     >> is not a good idea, as users can disable them (or the system can
>     >     >> disable them by default) also screen readers can't read icons
>     >     >> (though i doubt many blind people would be using kicad to lay out
>     >     >> circuits).
>     >     >>
>     >     >> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Clemens Koller <cko@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:cko@xxxxxxxxx>
>     >     <mailto:cko@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:cko@xxxxxxxxx>>>
>     >     >> wrote:
>     >     >>
>     >     >>> Hi!
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>> If we want to avoid clockwise (CW) and counterclockwise
>     (CCW) I
>     >     >>> suggest to add a sign to the rotation, which should be
>     trivial to
>     >     >>> translate:
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>> Mathematics/complex plane stuff tells that: CCW = positive
>     >     >>> rotation =  rotate + = rot+ CW = negative rotation =
>     rotate - =
>     >     >>> rot-
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>> In german we can use "rotieren +" und "rotieren -".
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>> Regards,
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>> Clemens
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>> On 2017-07-18 19:34, jp charras wrote:
>     >     >>>> Le 18/07/2017 à 19:14, "Jörg Hermann" a écrit :
>     >     >>>>> Translation of Clockwise and Counterclockwise are long texts
>     >     >>>>> in many
>     >     >>> languages:
>     >     >>>>> Uhrzeigersinn and Gegenuhrzeigersinn in german for example.
>     >     >>>>>
>     >     >>>>> If the icon depicts (dynamically) the sense of rotation, the
>     >     >>>>> text can
>     >     >>> be short as "Rotate" - which
>     >     >>>>> is short in many languages. Just an idea?
>     >     >>>>>
>     >     >>>>> Jörg Hermann
>     >     >>>>>
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>> I agree icons should show the rotation.
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>> However Rotate Clockwise (or Counter Clockwise ) is still
>     >     >>>> needed (just
>     >     >>> "Rotate" is not acceptable)
>     >     >>>> because icons are not always displayed: - On OSX by default
>     >     >>>> (although they can be shown, this is an option in
>     >     >>> Kicad, now)
>     >     >>>> - On Linux, some WM do not display icons in menus.
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>> Besides, English language is know for its short words and
>     >     >>>> sentences. Translations are using most of time longer
>     words and
>     >     >>>> sentences, and this
>     >     >>> is sometimes an issue in menus.
>     >     >>>> We (translators) have to live with that.
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>
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