kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Fabrizio Tappero <fabrizio.tappero@xxxxxxxxx>]

cheers and sorry for the back and forth.

Fabrizio


On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> This look good to me.  I'm fine with the unified menu icons.  If no one
> has any objections, I will commit it.
>
> On 7/20/2017 8:45 AM, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
> > Hi Wayne,
> > how are you?
> >
> > very cool. I have changed this patch so that everywhere:
> >
> > "Rotate 90 deg CW" -> "Rotate Clockwise"
> > "Rotate 90 deg CCW" -> "Rotate Counterclockwise"
> >
> > thanks a lot
> > Fabrizio
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >
> >     On 7/19/2017 6:17 AM, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
> >     > Hi Wayne,
> >     > Thanks for the many messages. I did not know that devs were so into
> >     > translation...
> >     >
> >     > My overall effort is to uniformise the Kicad UI and make it
> consistent
> >     > and as correct as possible.
> >     >
> >     > Currently in Kicad we are using "Rotate 90 deg CW" and "Rotate 90
> deg
> >     > CCW" in many many menus (see below). This expression is also used
> in
> >     > Inkscape, a pretty high standard software for vector image
> manipulation.
> >     > I personally think that consistency is the most important aspect
> of my
> >     > contributions and, despite loving internal conversations about
> >     > translations, etc I think we need to pick what is considered the
> best
> >     > expression and use it coherently in all kicad menus. I have the
> feeling
> >     > that if I submit a similar patch in few months, this kind of
> discussion
> >     > will come up again. In a way this is typical of open-source
> software, so
> >     > maybe it is not a bad thing.
> >
> >     I'm fine with consistent but consistently incorrect or confusing is
> no
> >     better than inconsistent.
> >
> >     >
> >     > In my opinion I think it would be good not to reinvent
> expressions. I
> >     > think "CW" and "CCW" is a perfectly understandable and usable
> expression.
> >
> >     CW and CCW are not expressions.  They are abbreviations which may
> not be
> >     understood outside of English.  I would prefer not to use
> abbreviations
> >     except for units unless space is at a premium.  In this case, I don't
> >     think there is a space issue.  Please use terms clockwise and
> >     counterclockwise.  These are the correct English terms for rotation
> >     direction.
> >
> >     >
> >     > The custom-defined rotation value is a new piece of info, thanks
> Wayne
> >     > for that! does it apply to all rotations?
> >
> >     This only applies when the user changes the default rotation angle
> from
> >     90 to something else.  The rotation angle is fixed to 90 in the
> >     schematic, symbol library, and footprint library editors and is user
> >     configurable in the board editor.
> >
> >     >
> >     > Please advise how to modify this patch to make it submittable.
> >
> >     Use clockwise and counter clockwise instead of CW and CCW.  Either
> >     remove the 90 deg rotation angle or use the user rotation angle in
> the
> >     board editor menu string.  I don't have a preference.
> >
> >     >
> >     > Cheers
> >     > Fabrizio
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > Inline image 1
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:47 AM, Wayne Stambaugh <
> stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>
> >     > <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>>>
> wrote:
> >     >
> >     >     On 7/18/2017 8:24 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> >     >     >> (remember, this is localization, not literal translation)
> >     >     >
> >     >     > Thank you! en_US should be "counterclockwise" and
> "clockwise" (or
> >     >     > even CCW/CW would be easily understood), and different
> phrasings
> >     >     > should be used in different languages. Don't avoid
> "clockwise" in
> >     >     > English because the French don't use it. It's up to the
> translators
> >     >     > to decide how things should be phrased in their locale.
> >     >
> >     >     Yes!  This is how it should be done.
> >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >     > On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 07:19:35PM -0500, José Ignacio wrote:
> >     >     >> Clockwise and counter-clockwise are the most usual term in
> American
> >     >     >> Engish, other localizations should use the most usual term
> in their
> >     >     >> respective locales (remember, this is localization, not
> literal
> >     >     >> translation). For example in Argentinian Spanish it should
> be
> >     >     >> "Horario" and "Antihorario". Encoding information in the
> icons only
> >     >     >> is not a good idea, as users can disable them (or the
> system can
> >     >     >> disable them by default) also screen readers can't read
> icons
> >     >     >> (though i doubt many blind people would be using kicad to
> lay out
> >     >     >> circuits).
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Clemens Koller <
> cko@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:cko@xxxxxxxxx>
> >     >     <mailto:cko@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:cko@xxxxxxxxx>>>
> >     >     >> wrote:
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >>> Hi!
> >     >     >>>
> >     >     >>> If we want to avoid clockwise (CW) and counterclockwise
> >     (CCW) I
> >     >     >>> suggest to add a sign to the rotation, which should be
> >     trivial to
> >     >     >>> translate:
> >     >     >>>
> >     >     >>> Mathematics/complex plane stuff tells that: CCW = positive
> >     >     >>> rotation =  rotate + = rot+ CW = negative rotation =
> >     rotate - =
> >     >     >>> rot-
> >     >     >>>
> >     >     >>> In german we can use "rotieren +" und "rotieren -".
> >     >     >>>
> >     >     >>> Regards,
> >     >     >>>
> >     >     >>> Clemens
> >     >     >>>
> >     >     >>>
> >     >     >>> On 2017-07-18 19:34, jp charras wrote:
> >     >     >>>> Le 18/07/2017 à 19:14, "Jörg Hermann" a écrit :
> >     >     >>>>> Translation of Clockwise and Counterclockwise are long
> texts
> >     >     >>>>> in many
> >     >     >>> languages:
> >     >     >>>>> Uhrzeigersinn and Gegenuhrzeigersinn in german for
> example.
> >     >     >>>>>
> >     >     >>>>> If the icon depicts (dynamically) the sense of rotation,
> the
> >     >     >>>>> text can
> >     >     >>> be short as "Rotate" - which
> >     >     >>>>> is short in many languages. Just an idea?
> >     >     >>>>>
> >     >     >>>>> Jörg Hermann
> >     >     >>>>>
> >     >     >>>>
> >     >     >>>> I agree icons should show the rotation.
> >     >     >>>>
> >     >     >>>> However Rotate Clockwise (or Counter Clockwise ) is still
> >     >     >>>> needed (just
> >     >     >>> "Rotate" is not acceptable)
> >     >     >>>> because icons are not always displayed: - On OSX by
> default
> >     >     >>>> (although they can be shown, this is an option in
> >     >     >>> Kicad, now)
> >     >     >>>> - On Linux, some WM do not display icons in menus.
> >     >     >>>>
> >     >     >>>> Besides, English language is know for its short words and
> >     >     >>>> sentences. Translations are using most of time longer
> >     words and
> >     >     >>>> sentences, and this
> >     >     >>> is sometimes an issue in menus.
> >     >     >>>> We (translators) have to live with that.
> >     >     >>>>
> >     >     >>>
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