kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Clemens Koller <cko@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi!

Maybe, some of these HDI Design Guides + documents are useful:

http://www.we-online.com/web/de/index.php/download/media/04_leiterplatte/2011_2/relaunch/produkte_5/microvia_hdi/141030_DesignGuide_HDI_1_1.pdf
Page 8 gives quite a good overview of what's possible - at least!

http://www.ilfa.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/ILFA-Designregeln-Multilayer.pdf
http://www.ilfa.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/ILFA-Designregeln-Starrflex.pdf

Some rules for Via-in-Pad or Via on top of Via on some layers, but not others might become a bit tricky.
Vias clearances can depend on the used drill diameter as well.
So there might not be a one clearance size fits all sizes in some designs.

Regards,

Clemens



On 2017-08-22 14:05, Bastian Neumannn wrote:
> Hi
> 
>> Ultimately is it useful to design a board, if you cannot make it?
> 
> Right now I can fabricate boards, I can not design. That is also not a good solution.
> 
> via constraints are tricky bussiness as they are very specific to the manufacturer.
> 
>> PS:
>> The current "tracks and vias editor" dialog is (for me) a not finished work:
>> It does not make any DRC test after editing, and this is *really annoying*.
> 
> This is what I am working on at the moment. To have a propper mask where one can input constraints for vias.
> 
> At the moment you can only define some layers. There is much more work to do. Like staggered/stacked µvias
> 
> Inline-Bild 2
> 
> Based on this dialog I plan on having more layer masks to only show layers described here.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 2017-08-22 13:00 GMT+02:00 jp charras <jp.charras@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jp.charras@xxxxxxxxxx>>:
> 
>     Le 22/08/2017 à 12:10, Simon Küppers a écrit :
>     > I second this. Working in a Research Institute I can assure you, that very often there are circuit
>     > boards with "interesting" stackups and via configurations... These boards are not produced by
>     > quick-turn factories like eurocircuits but companies such as ILFA or Optiprint.
>     >
>     > It would be unwise to cut out those users from KiCad.
> 
>     I dont't remember I said we should restrict vias to eurocircuits constraints.
> 
>     Moreover "very often there are circuit boards with "interesting" stackups and via configurations"
>     lead me to think there are constraints, unless I missed something.
>     (if there are "via configurations", there are constraints)
> 
>     I don't think eurocircuits is at quick-turn factory (although I have myself any experience about
>     blind/buried vias) but I think blind/buried vias can have constraints, because I saw constraints in
>     board houses.
> 
>     Ultimately is it useful to design a board, if you cannot make it?
> 
>     In fact, Pcbnew is really lacking a board stackup editor, to define not only the stackup layers, but
>     some other parameters (via parameters, copper thickness, dielectric thickness and type, and a few
>     other parameters).
> 
>     This board stackup definition is needed not only for vias, but also for impedance controlled boards.
> 
>     PS:
>     The current "tracks and vias editor" dialog is (for me) a not finished work:
>     It does not make any DRC test after editing, and this is *really annoying*.
> 
> 
>     >
>     >
>     > Am 2017-08-22 09:57, schrieb hauptmech:
>     >> On 22/08/17 18:25, jp charras wrote:
>     >>> Le 22/08/2017 à 05:55, hauptmech a écrit :
>     >>>> Manufacturing techniques vary between manufacturers and continuously evolve. Why would kicad limit
>     >>>> itself to what eurocircuits can do? They have optimized their process for quick turn prototyping
>     >>>> and
>     >>>> while they document their process nicely, they are probably not a good reference for what can be
>     >>>> done.
>     >>>>
>     >>>> On 21/08/17 05:44, jp charras wrote:
>     >>>>> Before working on blind and buried vias dialog, please have a look at:
>     >>>>> https://www.eurocircuits.com/blog/Blind-and-buried-vias <https://www.eurocircuits.com/blog/Blind-and-buried-vias>
>     >>> Currently there is no control in Kicad.
>     >>>
>     >>> Sure, but it looks like there are some constraints on blind/buried vias (microvias are blind/buried
>     >>> vias) depending on board houses.
>     >>>
>     >>> So it could be worth to be able to control these constraints inside Kicad (at least to have a
>     >>> minimal control).
>     >>>
>     >>> We currently have a DRC which detects too small clearances and track widths:
>     >>> this is most of time due to manufacturing constraints which continuously evolve.
>     >>>
>     >> I don't think I have enough understanding of the proposal to have an
>     >> opinion. I just want to caution against creating unnecessary
>     >> limitations in kicad. It really depends on the board house. I used to
>     >> work for one and there were quite a few atypical techniques used for
>     >> customer specific projects (many kept confidential to that customer).
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
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> 
>     --
>     Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
> 
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