kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Bernhard Stegmaier <stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Same for me as Adam said.
I am on a Late 2012 MacBook with Retina and i5, so definitely no killer machine.
Works without problems, of course rendering gets slower with bigger schematics and there is a little lag when scrolling/zooming.
But it definitely is very far from being “barely usable”.
My desktop is a i7-4770K with a 4k display and it also runs without problems.
Especially zoom times are much much faster than what you seem to have.

Rendering speed in eeschema won’t change until GAL is introduced, because current rendering is not very efficient (it can’t because in contrast to Windows/Linux OSX doesn’t support XOR drawing which eeschema is built upon).
I also don’t think that actual GPU will have much influence… there is very likely no real HW acceleration used for that 2D stuff (or, at least it won’t get much better).

If you like you could run your eeschema with your schematics in Xcode profiler, zoom/scroll around a bit, and post the results.
I can compare it to profiles I made to see if CPU is burnt in the same places.

I made a small video for comparison… watch my fingers and display.
  https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bxxu6Mh3pHubSDZUUnlVa0dXR3M
Yes, maybe not worlds biggest schematic, but I didn’t have anything else at hand right now.


Regards,
Bernhard

> On 5. Sep 2017, at 19:24, Andrey Kuznetsov <kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> Well, it's working a bit faster without external display, but still laggy enough to be an annoyance compared to windows.
> Holding the middle button and panning the schematic in circles shows incredible lag. In windows it's no more than 20 pixels separated from the mouse cursor, actually hard to notice, and on mac it can be separated by as much as an entire screen depending on how fast you move the mouse.
> If I zoom in back and forth real fast, on windows I get instant display feedback, on macOS I get a rubber band type effect with the zoom, it keeps zooming after I stop, not sure it's either the rubber band or lag. Smart on finger portables like phones, stupid on laptop/desktops.
> I have already disabled inertia in my mouse/trackpad and all other sources of rubber band that I could find online.
> 
> It might be an issue with hardware, not sure what to do about it though, how do you quantify this problem and reliably test it though since it's a user experience and speed/time issue in order to file a bug.
> 
> <image.png>
> 
> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 9:36 AM, Adam Wolf <adamwolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:adamwolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> I don't have issues with rendering lag on my Retina display (not in
> low-DPI mode) either, unless my board gets very complicated.
> 
> I do not run on an external display.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> > I think the Retina display is just one piece of the puzzle re. Mac
> > performance.  I have a Retina display and don't have any issues with
> > rendering lag (and don't run in low-DPI mode either).  So, I suspect that
> > there are some combinations of display + GPU + maybe drivers, library
> > versions, etc? that can cause poor performance.
> >
> > -Jon
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov <kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes, I did.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 9:11 AM Nick Østergaard <oe.nick@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:oe.nick@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Did you try the tip mentioned on the webpage?
> >>>
> >>> http://kicad-pcb.org/help/known-system-related-issues/#_osx <http://kicad-pcb.org/help/known-system-related-issues/#_osx>
> >>>
> >>> 2017-09-05 16:32 GMT+02:00 Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Andrey,
> >>>>
> >>>> I tried to reproduce this and couldn't.  I'm on 10.12.6, on a 2017 rMBP
> >>>> with internal display and 2K external display (don't have a 5K, but can't
> >>>> see how that would matter).  I also tried with an external mouse and didn't
> >>>> see any issue with the scroll wheel.
> >>>>
> >>>> Any other Mac developers have any ideas to help diagnose this?
> >>>> Andrey, it would probably be good to open a bug report so that this
> >>>> doesn't get lost in email.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Jon
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 7:58 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov <kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here's an example video.
> >>>>> I move the scroll wheel one at a time at first, and it zooms very slow,
> >>>>> notice it jumps from like 7x to 22x in a single scroll.
> >>>>> I tried PCBnew with OpenGL and it has additional problems, it zooms
> >>>>> pretty fast compared to Eeschema but when it stops, there's 50:50 chance it
> >>>>> will jump 1 zoom level about a second after the zoom stops, which throws you
> >>>>> off badly in terms of where you are. It's not my scroll wheel behaving
> >>>>> badly, scroll wheel is ratcheted, nothing like this happens on web pages,
> >>>>> pdfs, etc.
> >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rtlzeadfkkf3atn/KiCAD_20170801.mov?dl=0 <https://www.dropbox.com/s/rtlzeadfkkf3atn/KiCAD_20170801.mov?dl=0>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov <kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm using last night's nightly.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Which mac do you have, retina display, external display?
> >>>>>> My schematic operations are super laggy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To select a few parts, I have to click, wait a few seconds then drag,
> >>>>>> if I don't wait and start dragging and release, the parts never get
> >>>>>> selected.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Andrey,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Are you running the stable build or the nightlies?
> >>>>>>> I'm also using 10.12 and while there are some issues, it is usable.
> >>>>>>> I agree the zooming behavior is somewhat strange on Mac right now, but I
> >>>>>>> don't have any issues with lag or the other things you describe (I'm using
> >>>>>>> nightly builds).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -Jon
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 7:17 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov
> >>>>>>> <kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Previously used KiCAD on Windows, everything worked well, even the
> >>>>>>>> nightlies.
> >>>>>>>> Just started using KiCAD on MAC OSX 10.12.6 on macbook pro 2016 with
> >>>>>>>> 5K display, tried it without external display, no change, tried with low
> >>>>>>>> resolution mode for the program, no change, tried reducing screen
> >>>>>>>> resolution, a little better, but still supper laggy and weird.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Starting a new project and currently working in Eeschema.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> It takes 0.7s to rotate an LED symbol clockwise 90 degrees,
> >>>>>>>> everything is so laggy.
> >>>>>>>> Selecting parts, half the time doesn't select probably because I
> >>>>>>>> release too soon, the other half, very slow.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Using the scroll wheel to zoom in and out causes horrendous lags.
> >>>>>>>> Not only that but somehow it ends up zooming to unpredictable levels when
> >>>>>>>> only 1 mouse scroll is triggered and inertia disabled, because it keeps
> >>>>>>>> zooming and I move the mouse, it ends up zooming not where I was originally
> >>>>>>>> pointing to zoom with 1 scroll wheel trig. For example, sometimes the zoom
> >>>>>>>> doesn't stop right away so instead of zooming by 10 or 25% it goes from 0.6x
> >>>>>>>> to 11x, like WTFFFFFF. So the zoom completely doesn't work, useless.
> >>>>>>>> Why is it that when I press CMD+scroll wheel it scrolls viewport
> >>>>>>>> horizontally?
> >>>>>>>> I have 2 scroll wheels, horiz and vert, both are scrolling
> >>>>>>>> horizontally.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Button tool tips take a very long time to show up, I think 2
> >>>>>>>> seconds, 0.5s -1s should be used, when you're working and need a quick
> >>>>>>>> reminder, 2 seconds must as well be 10 seconds.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Anyone else familiar with things I'm experiencing?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>> Live Long and Prosper,
> >>>>>>>> Andrey
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
> >>>>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
> >>>>>> Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss the
> >>>>>> future [JFK]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> Live Long and Prosper,
> >>>>>> Andrey
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
> >>>>> Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss the
> >>>>> future [JFK]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> Live Long and Prosper,
> >>>>> Andrey
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
> >>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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> >>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
> >> Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss the
> >> future [JFK]
> >>
> >> kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> Live Long and Prosper,
> >> Andrey
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
> > Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
> Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss the future [JFK]
> 
> kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
> Live Long and Prosper,
> Andrey
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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