kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Simon Wells <swel024@xxxxxxxxx>]

the big problem i have with setup wizards is it is not always obvious which options will be or were set by the setup dialog

Simon

> On 1/01/2018, at 11:08 AM, Kristoffer Ödmark <kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> There is still some functionality in it that is missing from what I gather.
> 
> I do like the idea that just having an "enable hw acceleration" button or switch in the nagdialog, it feels proffessional, and most people will try it i think.
> 
> Also, these problems seems like there could be some benefit of having a setup wizard, IE a series of nagdialogs that is only run once, and can be reenabled when new user choices are mandated( download libraries, dark/light theme, standard projects folder, hardware/software rendering)
> 
> I think changing so that the only option is to run with or without HW acceleration should be a good goal for v6, along with _maybe_ having a setup wizard.
> 
> -Kristoffer
> 
> On 12/31/2017 07:09 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
>> Do we actually need the legacy canvas anymore? I know we need the code in
>> it for printing, but do we need the option to render the UI in legacy mode
>> or could we hide that in some place less prominent than the view menu? It
>> would be a lot less confusing if the only choice was between hardware
>> acceleration or not.
>> On Dec 31, 2017 13:07, "Jon Evans" <cdawzrd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> How about "Modern" instead of GAL for user-facing stuff?
>>> 
>>> "Legacy"
>>> "Modern (Accelerated)"
>>> "Modern (Fallback)"
>>> 
>>> On Dec 31, 2017 12:38, "Nick Østergaard" <oe.nick@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I don't think the term standard for Cairo is good. It is better to call
>>>> it fallback or faillsafe.
>>>> 
>>>> Calling it standard gives the impression that this is what they should
>>>> choose, but really we want them to select OpenGL.
>>>> 
>>>> Den 31. dec. 2017 18.12 <20%2017%2018%2012> skrev "Wayne Stambaugh" <
>>>> stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>:
>>>> 
>>>>> Looks good to me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 12/31/2017 12:04 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
>>>>>> How about something like this?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Inline image 1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (N.B. I agree with Andy, and think we could consider renaming the
>>>>>> options in the View menu to "Legacy", "Accelerated (OpenGL)" and
>>>>>> "Standard (Cairo)" or something like that)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Jon
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Andy Peters <devel@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> <mailto:devel@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>     On Dec 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, Simon Wells <swel024@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>     <mailto:swel024@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>     What about having the default set to cairo, and when the
>>>>>>>     first/once run dialog runs it talks about openGL (this goes
>>>>>>>     against you already set to GAL) but it allows a default that even
>>>>>>>     if it crashes won’t require manually editing a configuration to
>>>>>>>     make it workable
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     User perspective:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     The names for the canvases are “engineering terms,” that is,
>>>>>>     something named by the developers for their own internal use but
>>>>>>     were never renamed for the end user who might have no idea what is
>>>>>>     meant by “Cairo canvas” or what “GAL” stands for. I say that
>>>>> because
>>>>>>     early on I asked myself, “WTF is this ‘Cairo’ thing?”
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     I now understand (I think …) that Cairo and GAL implement the same
>>>>>>     features but the latter requires proper OpenGL hardware and
>>>>> drivers,
>>>>>>     and Cairo does not.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     So perhaps better terms for these options is “Standard” and
>>>>>>     “Accelerated (OpenGL).” Users know what OpenGL means (I hope, it’s
>>>>>>     nothing new). As for why a user with access to OpenGL hardware
>>>>> would
>>>>>>     not choose to use it by default? Battery life on a laptop, I
>>>>>>     suppose, but in using Kicad for a few years now I can say I’ve
>>>>> never
>>>>>>     used the Cairo canvas at all.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     -a
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>     Simon
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>     On 1/01/2018, at 2:48 AM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>     <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>     I spite of my disdain for nagware, I'll tolerate this under the
>>>>>>>>     following conditions:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>     The current canvas is not already on one of the gal canvases.
>>>>> If the
>>>>>>>>     user is already using a gal canvas, a dialog to inform the user
>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>     the gal canvas is silly.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>     It's a one shot dialog that never appears again.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>     If the gal canvas crashes, the user isn't going to have to
>>>>>>>>     manually edit
>>>>>>>>     a configuration file to restore the legacy canvas.  This
>>>>>>>>     requirement may
>>>>>>>>     prevent us from setting the opengl canvas as the default so the
>>>>>>>>     solution
>>>>>>>>     may not be as easy as it seems.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>     On 12/31/2017 07:34 AM, Jeff Young wrote:
>>>>>>>>>     +1 to the startup dialog idea.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>     I think we also need to set reasonable transparencies in the
>>>>>>>>>     layers so that it looks more like the default legacy canvas.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>     I don' think this is necessary given that the gal canvas layer
>>>>> colors
>>>>>>>>     and transparencies are completely user configurable but I'm not
>>>>>>>>     opposed
>>>>>>>>     to a default layer color/transparency configuration that looks
>>>>>>>>     more like
>>>>>>>>     the legacy canvas.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>     On 31 Dec 2017, at 10:09, Clemens Koller <cko@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>     <mailto:cko@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>     On 2017-12-31 03:53, Jon Evans wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>     I know this would be work for someone to do and maybe I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>     offer to do it if the project leaders approve...
>>>>>>>>>>>     What about a one-time pop-up when first installing a release
>>>>>>>>>>>     5.0 that appears if the config says the user was using legacy
>>>>>>>>>>>     canvas, telling them about how to switch and that they should
>>>>>>>>>>>     check it out?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>     -Jon
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>     +1
>>>>>>>>>>     An initial start-up dialog to setup the "users default" after a
>>>>>>>>>>     first install or after a "reset Kicad to defaults, as I messed
>>>>>>>>>>     something up I don't remember" seems very helpful to me. If
>>>>>>>>>>     OpenGL might still crash in rare cases, warn the user in
>>>>>>>>>>     advance and explain, how he can safely step back from using
>>>>>>>>>>     OpenGL in case it doesn't work and how to file a bug report...
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>     Regards,
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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