kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>]

I plan on adding the remapping feature to the Eeschema documentation
before the stable 5 release.  Hopefully I can find the time to knock it
out it the next week or two to give our translators plenty of time.

On 1/2/2018 2:59 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> Of course. My confusion mostly surrounds how it interacts with rescue
> and when it does and does not decide to write things to disk (see José's
> point about it clobbering its own backups).
> 
> In any case, I don't need you to explain it to me. You and I aren't the
> only KiCad users, and if people who've been using KiCad for years and
> have actual dev experience (specifically myself and José here) can't
> figure it out, scads of users are going to have the same problem. It
> needs to be made clearer, not explained on the mailing list.
> 
> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 02:55:31PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>> Let's start at the beginning.  Are you clear on why symbols need to be
>> remapped?
>>
>> On 1/2/2018 2:52 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>>> Honestly, with this symbol library stuff it's been hard for me to figure
>>> out what's a bug and what's a confusing design decision. Bug reports for
>>> the latter are rather frowned upon so I've been refraining from filing
>>> many bugs.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 02:51:14PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>>>> I just tested this repo and it failed to remap every symbol so either
>>>> something has been broken or this project is a corner case that I
>>>> haven't stumbled across yet.  I will keep informed of my progress.  In
>>>> the future, please file bug report when you see something like this.  If
>>>> you just discuss it on irc, I have no way of knowing this is an issue
>>>> unless I manage to free up some time (unlikely any time soon) to spend
>>>> on irc.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/2/2018 2:42 PM, José Ignacio wrote:
>>>>> This sequence of actions is what puts the project on a stuffed up state:
>>>>>
>>>>> * Open schematic and be greeted with some symbols that need rescue,
>>>>> rescue a couple symbols
>>>>> * Be greeted by the remap dialog (1)
>>>>> * Regret remapping and quit without save
>>>>> * Open schematic again
>>>>> * Be greeted by the rescue dialog, with ALL symbols, refuse
>>>>> * Remap dialog fails to find anything, click through (2)
>>>>>
>>>>> Schematic looks fine, but the remap and rescue dialogs will show up
>>>>> every time even though there is a valid sym-lib-table.
>>>>>
>>>>> (1) At this point the pro file is overwritten, deleting all project
>>>>> library entries
>>>>> (2) At this point the pro file is overwritten again!, clobbering the
>>>>> backup (SOL)
>>>>>
>>>>> If you accept the second rescue you will have to map everything
>>>>> manually. The remapper should really take the existing sym-lib-table or
>>>>> just not clobber the pro file until the schematic is saved.
>>>>>
>>>>> The close without save step should be perfectly valid if you're just
>>>>> peeking at an old project and (possibly much later) you want to go
>>>>> modify it you're greeted with that bad surprise.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 02:20:10PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>>>>>     > It's exactly as insane as the cache has always been.
>>>>>
>>>>>     I respectfully disagree. As I recall from many years of using KiCad
>>>>>     before this, nothing about the cache has ever spontaneously deleted all
>>>>>     libraries without warning. That's a whole new level of insanity that
>>>>>     deserves its own "what not to do" section in a UX book somewhere. (And
>>>>>     before you think this is all just "this UX guide sez" vague complaining,
>>>>>     don't forget that I and many others still have _no idea wtf we're doing_
>>>>>     trying to drive this thing.)
>>>>>
>>>>>     > The only way I can
>>>>>     > think of this happening is that the schematic was not saved after the
>>>>>     > remapping and once all of the libraries are removed from the project
>>>>>     > file but cache should still be valid if no save was performed.  Let me
>>>>>     > try remapping this project and I will get back to you.
>>>>>     >
>>>>>     > On 1/2/2018 2:08 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>>>>>     > > Ah, that explains my question mark case. That's insane.
>>>>>     > >
>>>>>     > > On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 01:08:11PM -0600, José Ignacio wrote:
>>>>>     > >> One big problem is that even if everything fails, the project
>>>>>     will show up
>>>>>     > >> fine with all symbols, but they wont have the remap done. at
>>>>>     the same time
>>>>>     > >> the remapper deletes all library entries from the project file,
>>>>>     which
>>>>>     > >> causes it to open with question marks only if you reopen it
>>>>>     again after
>>>>>     > >> saving. It should show the question marks before then or make
>>>>>     better use of
>>>>>     > >> the cache.
>>>>>     > >>
>>>>>     > >> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:44 PM, Chris Pavlina
>>>>>     <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>>     > >> wrote:
>>>>>     > >>
>>>>>     > >>> Keep in mind my problem is not necessarily that things are
>>>>>     _broken_ but
>>>>>     > >>> perhaps that they are so opaque that they only make sense in
>>>>>     the mind of
>>>>>     > >>> the designer. As I said in the previous message, we've been
>>>>>     getting TONS
>>>>>     > >>> of people on IRC who can't figure out how the hell to drive
>>>>>     this thing,
>>>>>     > >>> and I count myself among them. Still takes me like three tries
>>>>>     to load
>>>>>     > >>> an old project without it stuffing everything up.
>>>>>     > >>>
>>>>>     > >>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 01:40:40PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>>>>>     > >>>> Please send me a sample project if possible.  I have tested
>>>>>     this every
>>>>>     > >>>> which way I can think of and it works fine for everything I
>>>>>     throw at it.
>>>>>     > >>>>  The only time things fall apart are when the cache is
>>>>>     corrupted or
>>>>>     > >>>> missing and/or rescues have be ignored.  In those cases there
>>>>>     is nothing
>>>>>     > >>>> I can do because the proper symbols do not exist anywhere so
>>>>>     remapping
>>>>>     > >>>> is not possible.
>>>>>     > >>>>
>>>>>     > >>>> On 1/2/2018 1:33 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>>>>>     > >>>>> Are we really going to do an RC now without any more work to
>>>>>     the remap
>>>>>     > >>>>> stuff? I just had it ruin another project last night. It
>>>>>     behaves very
>>>>>     > >>>>> poorly when things also have to be rescued or libraries are
>>>>>     missing, it
>>>>>     > >>>>> seems.
>>>>>     > >>>>>
>>>>>     > >>>>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 09:10:20AM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>>>>>     > >>>>>> On 1/2/2018 8:58 AM, Tomasz Wlostowski wrote:
>>>>>     > >>>>>>> On 28/12/17 20:24, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>>>>>     > >>>>>>>> There are a few outstanding crash bugs that need to be
>>>>>     fixed before
>>>>>     > >>> we
>>>>>     > >>>>>>>> can consider branching the stable 5 release.  Here is the
>>>>>     list of
>>>>>     > >>>>>>>> unresolved crash bugs that effect the development branch:
>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>
>>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788
>>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788>
>>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274
>>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274>
>>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872
>>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872>
>>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999
>>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999>
>>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614
>>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614>
>>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253
>>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253>
>>>>>     > >>>>>>>
>>>>>     > >>>>>>> Hey Wayne,
>>>>>     > >>>>>>>
>>>>>     > >>>>>>> I fixed the remaining 2 bugs yesterday (the STEP import
>>>>>     one is a bug
>>>>>     > >>> in
>>>>>     > >>>>>>> OCE). Please proceed with the 5.0-rc.
>>>>>     > >>>>>>>
>>>>>     > >>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>     > >>>>>>>
>>>>>     > >>>>>>
>>>>>     > >>>>>> Hi Tom,
>>>>>     > >>>>>>
>>>>>     > >>>>>> Thanks!.  I wont have time to get to this until the
>>>>>     weekend.  If there
>>>>>     > >>>>>> are no additional critical severity bug reports by then, I
>>>>>     will create
>>>>>     > >>>>>> the version 5 branch.
>>>>>     > >>>>>>
>>>>>     > >>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>     > >>>>>>
>>>>>     > >>>>>> Wayne
>>>>>     > >>>>>>
>>>>>     > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>