kicad-developers team mailing list archive

["kristoffer Ödmark" <kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>]

The same settings that were set during your first startup currently, but 
behind the scenes, a wizard would just give you the option of choosing, 
or going with the "default"


On 2017-12-31 23:11, Simon Wells wrote:
> the big problem i have with setup wizards is it is not always obvious 
> which options will be or were set by the setup dialog
>
> Simon
>
> > On 1/01/2018, at 11:08 AM, Kristoffer Ödmark 
> > <kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>> 
> > wrote:
> >
> > There is still some functionality in it that is missing from what I 
> > gather.
> >
> > I do like the idea that just having an "enable hw acceleration" 
> > button or switch in the nagdialog, it feels proffessional, and most 
> > people will try it i think.
> >
> > Also, these problems seems like there could be some benefit of having 
> > a setup wizard, IE a series of nagdialogs that is only run once, and 
> > can be reenabled when new user choices are mandated( download 
> > libraries, dark/light theme, standard projects folder, 
> > hardware/software rendering)
> >
> > I think changing so that the only option is to run with or without HW 
> > acceleration should be a good goal for v6, along with _maybe_ having 
> > a setup wizard.
> >
> > -Kristoffer
> >
> > On 12/31/2017 07:09 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
> > > Do we actually need the legacy canvas anymore? I know we need the 
> > > code in
> > > it for printing, but do we need the option to render the UI in 
> > > legacy mode
> > > or could we hide that in some place less prominent than the view 
> > > menu? It
> > > would be a lot less confusing if the only choice was between hardware
> > > acceleration or not.
> > > On Dec 31, 2017 13:07, "Jon Evans" <cdawzrd@xxxxxxxxx 
> > > <mailto:cdawzrd@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> > > > How about "Modern" instead of GAL for user-facing stuff?
> > > >
> > > > "Legacy"
> > > > "Modern (Accelerated)"
> > > > "Modern (Fallback)"
> > > >
> > > > On Dec 31, 2017 12:38, "Nick Østergaard" <oe.nick@xxxxxxxxx 
> > > > <mailto:oe.nick@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I don't think the term standard for Cairo is good. It is better to 
> > > > > call
> > > > > it fallback or faillsafe.
> > > > >
> > > > > Calling it standard gives the impression that this is what they should
> > > > > choose, but really we want them to select OpenGL.
> > > > >
> > > > > Den 31. dec. 2017 18.12 <20%2017%2018%2012> skrev "Wayne Stambaugh" <
> > > > > stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Looks good to me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 12/31/2017 12:04 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
> > > > > > > How about something like this?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Inline image 1
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > (N.B. I agree with Andy, and think we could consider renaming the
> > > > > > > options in the View menu to "Legacy", "Accelerated (OpenGL)" and
> > > > > > > "Standard (Cairo)" or something like that)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Jon
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Andy Peters <devel@xxxxxxxxx 
> > > > > > > <mailto:devel@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > <mailto:devel@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     On Dec 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, Simon Wells <swel024@xxxxxxxxx 
> > > > > > > > <mailto:swel024@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > >     <mailto:swel024@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     What about having the default set to cairo, and when the
> > > > > > > >     first/once run dialog runs it talks about openGL (this goes
> > > > > > > >     against you already set to GAL) but it allows a default 
> > > > > > > > that even
> > > > > > > >     if it crashes won’t require manually editing a configuration to
> > > > > > > >     make it workable
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >     User perspective:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >     The names for the canvases are “engineering terms,” that is,
> > > > > > >     something named by the developers for their own internal use but
> > > > > > >     were never renamed for the end user who might have no idea 
> > > > > > > what is
> > > > > > >     meant by “Cairo canvas” or what “GAL” stands for. I say that
> > > > > > because
> > > > > > >     early on I asked myself, “WTF is this ‘Cairo’ thing?”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >     I now understand (I think …) that Cairo and GAL implement 
> > > > > > > the same
> > > > > > >     features but the latter requires proper OpenGL hardware and
> > > > > > drivers,
> > > > > > >     and Cairo does not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >     So perhaps better terms for these options is “Standard” and
> > > > > > >     “Accelerated (OpenGL).” Users know what OpenGL means (I 
> > > > > > > hope, it’s
> > > > > > >     nothing new). As for why a user with access to OpenGL hardware
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > >     not choose to use it by default? Battery life on a laptop, I
> > > > > > >     suppose, but in using Kicad for a few years now I can say I’ve
> > > > > > never
> > > > > > >     used the Cairo canvas at all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >     -a
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     Simon
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     On 1/01/2018, at 2:48 AM, Wayne Stambaugh 
> > > > > > > > > <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > >     <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     I spite of my disdain for nagware, I'll tolerate this 
> > > > > > > > > under the
> > > > > > > > >     following conditions:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     The current canvas is not already on one of the gal canvases.
> > > > > > If the
> > > > > > > > >     user is already using a gal canvas, a dialog to inform the 
> > > > > > > > > user
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > >     the gal canvas is silly.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     It's a one shot dialog that never appears again.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     If the gal canvas crashes, the user isn't going to have to
> > > > > > > > >     manually edit
> > > > > > > > >     a configuration file to restore the legacy canvas.  This
> > > > > > > > >     requirement may
> > > > > > > > >     prevent us from setting the opengl canvas as the default 
> > > > > > > > > so the
> > > > > > > > >     solution
> > > > > > > > >     may not be as easy as it seems.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     On 12/31/2017 07:34 AM, Jeff Young wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >     +1 to the startup dialog idea.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >     I think we also need to set reasonable transparencies in the
> > > > > > > > > >     layers so that it looks more like the default legacy canvas.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     I don' think this is necessary given that the gal canvas layer
> > > > > > colors
> > > > > > > > >     and transparencies are completely user configurable but 
> > > > > > > > > I'm not
> > > > > > > > >     opposed
> > > > > > > > >     to a default layer color/transparency configuration that looks
> > > > > > > > >     more like
> > > > > > > > >     the legacy canvas.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >     On 31 Dec 2017, at 10:09, Clemens Koller <cko@xxxxxxxxx 
> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:cko@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > >     <mailto:cko@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >     On 2017-12-31 03:53, Jon Evans wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >     I know this would be work for someone to do and maybe I'd
> > > > > > > > > > > >     offer to do it if the project leaders approve...
> > > > > > > > > > > >     What about a one-time pop-up when first installing a 
> > > > > > > > > > > > release
> > > > > > > > > > > >     5.0 that appears if the config says the user was using 
> > > > > > > > > > > > legacy
> > > > > > > > > > > >     canvas, telling them about how to switch and that they 
> > > > > > > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > > > > > >     check it out?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >     -Jon
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >     +1
> > > > > > > > > > >     An initial start-up dialog to setup the "users default" 
> > > > > > > > > > > after a
> > > > > > > > > > >     first install or after a "reset Kicad to defaults, as I 
> > > > > > > > > > > messed
> > > > > > > > > > >     something up I don't remember" seems very helpful to me. If
> > > > > > > > > > >     OpenGL might still crash in rare cases, warn the user in
> > > > > > > > > > >     advance and explain, how he can safely step back from using
> > > > > > > > > > >     OpenGL in case it doesn't work and how to file a bug 
> > > > > > > > > > > report...
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >     Regards,
> > > > > > >
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