kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>]

Nick,

I think you possibly misunderstood me or perhaps I didn't explain it
very well.  I would have liked to have the stable 5 release ready for
FOSDEM but realistically I would be happy if we were ready to create the
v5 branch and tag rc1 by FOSDEM.  That's a far more realistic goal.  I
don't want to rush v5 out.  I still need to fix a few things with the
remapping and the new symbol library editor has a least one crash bug
that needs to be fixed before I would be comfortable with branching v5.
I just don't see any possibility of getting v5 released by FOSDEM even
if I didn't sleep until then. :)  I want to give everyone at least a
month to get the libraries, docs, translations, and packages ready from
the time the source tree is tagged as stable.  If we got the stable 5
release out by the end of March, I would be pretty happy.

Cheers,

Wayne

On 01/07/2018 04:06 PM, Nick Østergaard wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I will attempt to summarize the status as I see it.
> 
> Lots of fixes have been comming in over the last few weeks. But if we
> are to keep up with Wayne's goal of having a v5 release for FOSDEM, I
> think we tag 5.0.0-rc1 soon. There is no reason we can still fix stuff
> untill we make the final 5.0.0 release, and create the 5.0 branch from
> there. Then we can unfreeze the feature freeze on master, and git
> describe matster will be relative to this point. I have attached an
> example and caricature of the previous kicad branching and how I see
> expect the future too look like.
> 
> We shall accept that it will probably only be a release candidate for
> FOSDEM, but that would be great too!
> 
> If there are some things that simply need to be in 5.0.0 -- I think we
> need a shoutout now. Looking at
> https://launchpad.net/kicad/+milestone/5.0.0-rc1
> <https://launchpad.net/kicad/+milestone/5.0.0-rc1> there are only two
> outstanding bugs.
> 
> The library team seem to be ready to tag also,
> https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-symbols/issues/133
> <https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-symbols/issues/133>
> 
> I guess the doc will not have much time to get much love before the
> release. But this is mostly about new features not being documented and
> probably some cleanup and modernization. I guess we are more likely to
> get some feedback on the docs after the first v5 release.
> 
> The translations will need a bit of touchup on some languages, the ones
> almost done but needs a bit is en, ru, de, and es. These can probably
> reach 100% before v5 if we are lucky. This sort of requires we have a
> kicad tag to update against. I think some of those languages also keep
> unused strings, so even if it is not at 100% it might be complete. But I
> am not sure about this.
> 
> Regards
> Nick Østergaard
> 
> 
> 
> 2018-01-02 21:07 GMT+01:00 Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>>:
> 
>     I plan on adding the remapping feature to the Eeschema documentation
>     before the stable 5 release.  Hopefully I can find the time to knock it
>     out it the next week or two to give our translators plenty of time.
> 
>     On 1/2/2018 2:59 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>     > Of course. My confusion mostly surrounds how it interacts with rescue
>     > and when it does and does not decide to write things to disk (see
>     José's
>     > point about it clobbering its own backups).
>     >
>     > In any case, I don't need you to explain it to me. You and I
>     aren't the
>     > only KiCad users, and if people who've been using KiCad for years and
>     > have actual dev experience (specifically myself and José here) can't
>     > figure it out, scads of users are going to have the same problem. It
>     > needs to be made clearer, not explained on the mailing list.
>     >
>     > On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 02:55:31PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>     >> Let's start at the beginning.  Are you clear on why symbols need
>     to be
>     >> remapped?
>     >>
>     >> On 1/2/2018 2:52 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>     >>> Honestly, with this symbol library stuff it's been hard for me
>     to figure
>     >>> out what's a bug and what's a confusing design decision. Bug
>     reports for
>     >>> the latter are rather frowned upon so I've been refraining from
>     filing
>     >>> many bugs.
>     >>>
>     >>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 02:51:14PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>     >>>> I just tested this repo and it failed to remap every symbol so
>     either
>     >>>> something has been broken or this project is a corner case that I
>     >>>> haven't stumbled across yet.  I will keep informed of my
>     progress.  In
>     >>>> the future, please file bug report when you see something like
>     this.  If
>     >>>> you just discuss it on irc, I have no way of knowing this is an
>     issue
>     >>>> unless I manage to free up some time (unlikely any time soon)
>     to spend
>     >>>> on irc.
>     >>>>
>     >>>> On 1/2/2018 2:42 PM, José Ignacio wrote:
>     >>>>> This sequence of actions is what puts the project on a stuffed
>     up state:
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> * Open schematic and be greeted with some symbols that need
>     rescue,
>     >>>>> rescue a couple symbols
>     >>>>> * Be greeted by the remap dialog (1)
>     >>>>> * Regret remapping and quit without save
>     >>>>> * Open schematic again
>     >>>>> * Be greeted by the rescue dialog, with ALL symbols, refuse
>     >>>>> * Remap dialog fails to find anything, click through (2)
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> Schematic looks fine, but the remap and rescue dialogs will
>     show up
>     >>>>> every time even though there is a valid sym-lib-table.
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> (1) At this point the pro file is overwritten, deleting all
>     project
>     >>>>> library entries
>     >>>>> (2) At this point the pro file is overwritten again!,
>     clobbering the
>     >>>>> backup (SOL)
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> If you accept the second rescue you will have to map everything
>     >>>>> manually. The remapper should really take the existing
>     sym-lib-table or
>     >>>>> just not clobber the pro file until the schematic is saved.
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> The close without save step should be perfectly valid if
>     you're just
>     >>>>> peeking at an old project and (possibly much later) you want to go
>     >>>>> modify it you're greeted with that bad surprise.
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Chris Pavlina
>     <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>
>     >>>>> <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>     On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 02:20:10PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh
>     wrote:
>     >>>>>     > It's exactly as insane as the cache has always been.
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>     I respectfully disagree. As I recall from many years of
>     using KiCad
>     >>>>>     before this, nothing about the cache has ever
>     spontaneously deleted all
>     >>>>>     libraries without warning. That's a whole new level of
>     insanity that
>     >>>>>     deserves its own "what not to do" section in a UX book
>     somewhere. (And
>     >>>>>     before you think this is all just "this UX guide sez"
>     vague complaining,
>     >>>>>     don't forget that I and many others still have _no idea
>     wtf we're doing_
>     >>>>>     trying to drive this thing.)
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>     > The only way I can
>     >>>>>     > think of this happening is that the schematic was not
>     saved after the
>     >>>>>     > remapping and once all of the libraries are removed from
>     the project
>     >>>>>     > file but cache should still be valid if no save was
>     performed.  Let me
>     >>>>>     > try remapping this project and I will get back to you.
>     >>>>>     >
>     >>>>>     > On 1/2/2018 2:08 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>     >>>>>     > > Ah, that explains my question mark case. That's insane.
>     >>>>>     > >
>     >>>>>     > > On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 01:08:11PM -0600, José Ignacio
>     wrote:
>     >>>>>     > >> One big problem is that even if everything fails, the
>     project
>     >>>>>     will show up
>     >>>>>     > >> fine with all symbols, but they wont have the remap
>     done. at
>     >>>>>     the same time
>     >>>>>     > >> the remapper deletes all library entries from the
>     project file,
>     >>>>>     which
>     >>>>>     > >> causes it to open with question marks only if you
>     reopen it
>     >>>>>     again after
>     >>>>>     > >> saving. It should show the question marks before then
>     or make
>     >>>>>     better use of
>     >>>>>     > >> the cache.
>     >>>>>     > >>
>     >>>>>     > >> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:44 PM, Chris Pavlina
>     >>>>>     <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>
>     <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>>>
>     >>>>>     > >> wrote:
>     >>>>>     > >>
>     >>>>>     > >>> Keep in mind my problem is not necessarily that
>     things are
>     >>>>>     _broken_ but
>     >>>>>     > >>> perhaps that they are so opaque that they only make
>     sense in
>     >>>>>     the mind of
>     >>>>>     > >>> the designer. As I said in the previous message,
>     we've been
>     >>>>>     getting TONS
>     >>>>>     > >>> of people on IRC who can't figure out how the hell
>     to drive
>     >>>>>     this thing,
>     >>>>>     > >>> and I count myself among them. Still takes me like
>     three tries
>     >>>>>     to load
>     >>>>>     > >>> an old project without it stuffing everything up.
>     >>>>>     > >>>
>     >>>>>     > >>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 01:40:40PM -0500, Wayne
>     Stambaugh wrote:
>     >>>>>     > >>>> Please send me a sample project if possible.  I
>     have tested
>     >>>>>     this every
>     >>>>>     > >>>> which way I can think of and it works fine for
>     everything I
>     >>>>>     throw at it.
>     >>>>>     > >>>>  The only time things fall apart are when the cache is
>     >>>>>     corrupted or
>     >>>>>     > >>>> missing and/or rescues have be ignored.  In those
>     cases there
>     >>>>>     is nothing
>     >>>>>     > >>>> I can do because the proper symbols do not exist
>     anywhere so
>     >>>>>     remapping
>     >>>>>     > >>>> is not possible.
>     >>>>>     > >>>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>> On 1/2/2018 1:33 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>     >>>>>     > >>>>> Are we really going to do an RC now without any
>     more work to
>     >>>>>     the remap
>     >>>>>     > >>>>> stuff? I just had it ruin another project last
>     night. It
>     >>>>>     behaves very
>     >>>>>     > >>>>> poorly when things also have to be rescued or
>     libraries are
>     >>>>>     missing, it
>     >>>>>     > >>>>> seems.
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 09:10:20AM -0500, Wayne
>     Stambaugh wrote:
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>> On 1/2/2018 8:58 AM, Tomasz Wlostowski wrote:
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>> On 28/12/17 20:24, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> There are a few outstanding crash bugs that
>     need to be
>     >>>>>     fixed before
>     >>>>>     > >>> we
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> can consider branching the stable 5 release. 
>     Here is the
>     >>>>>     list of
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> unresolved crash bugs that effect the
>     development branch:
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788
>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788>
>     >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788
>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274
>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274>
>     >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274
>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872
>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872>
>     >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872
>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999
>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999>
>     >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999
>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614
>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614>
>     >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614
>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253
>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253>
>     >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253
>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>> Hey Wayne,
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>> I fixed the remaining 2 bugs yesterday (the STEP
>     import
>     >>>>>     one is a bug
>     >>>>>     > >>> in
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>> OCE). Please proceed with the 5.0-rc.
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>> Tom
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>> Hi Tom,
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>> Thanks!.  I wont have time to get to this until the
>     >>>>>     weekend.  If there
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>> are no additional critical severity bug reports
>     by then, I
>     >>>>>     will create
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>> the version 5 branch.
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>> Cheers,
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>> Wayne
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>>
>     >>>>>     > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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