kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Nick Østergaard <oe.nick@xxxxxxxxx>]

I am just talking about tagging, not doing any realease announcement.
Getting an early tag will make it easer for packagers to prepare.

2018-01-07 22:17 GMT+01:00 Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>:

> Nick,
>
> I think you possibly misunderstood me or perhaps I didn't explain it
> very well.  I would have liked to have the stable 5 release ready for
> FOSDEM but realistically I would be happy if we were ready to create the
> v5 branch and tag rc1 by FOSDEM.  That's a far more realistic goal.  I
> don't want to rush v5 out.  I still need to fix a few things with the
> remapping and the new symbol library editor has a least one crash bug
> that needs to be fixed before I would be comfortable with branching v5.
> I just don't see any possibility of getting v5 released by FOSDEM even
> if I didn't sleep until then. :)  I want to give everyone at least a
> month to get the libraries, docs, translations, and packages ready from
> the time the source tree is tagged as stable.  If we got the stable 5
> release out by the end of March, I would be pretty happy.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Wayne
>
> On 01/07/2018 04:06 PM, Nick Østergaard wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I will attempt to summarize the status as I see it.
> >
> > Lots of fixes have been comming in over the last few weeks. But if we
> > are to keep up with Wayne's goal of having a v5 release for FOSDEM, I
> > think we tag 5.0.0-rc1 soon. There is no reason we can still fix stuff
> > untill we make the final 5.0.0 release, and create the 5.0 branch from
> > there. Then we can unfreeze the feature freeze on master, and git
> > describe matster will be relative to this point. I have attached an
> > example and caricature of the previous kicad branching and how I see
> > expect the future too look like.
> >
> > We shall accept that it will probably only be a release candidate for
> > FOSDEM, but that would be great too!
> >
> > If there are some things that simply need to be in 5.0.0 -- I think we
> > need a shoutout now. Looking at
> > https://launchpad.net/kicad/+milestone/5.0.0-rc1
> > <https://launchpad.net/kicad/+milestone/5.0.0-rc1> there are only two
> > outstanding bugs.
> >
> > The library team seem to be ready to tag also,
> > https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-symbols/issues/133
> > <https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-symbols/issues/133>
> >
> > I guess the doc will not have much time to get much love before the
> > release. But this is mostly about new features not being documented and
> > probably some cleanup and modernization. I guess we are more likely to
> > get some feedback on the docs after the first v5 release.
> >
> > The translations will need a bit of touchup on some languages, the ones
> > almost done but needs a bit is en, ru, de, and es. These can probably
> > reach 100% before v5 if we are lucky. This sort of requires we have a
> > kicad tag to update against. I think some of those languages also keep
> > unused strings, so even if it is not at 100% it might be complete. But I
> > am not sure about this.
> >
> > Regards
> > Nick Østergaard
> >
> >
> >
> > 2018-01-02 21:07 GMT+01:00 Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>>:
> >
> >     I plan on adding the remapping feature to the Eeschema documentation
> >     before the stable 5 release.  Hopefully I can find the time to knock
> it
> >     out it the next week or two to give our translators plenty of time.
> >
> >     On 1/2/2018 2:59 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> >     > Of course. My confusion mostly surrounds how it interacts with
> rescue
> >     > and when it does and does not decide to write things to disk (see
> >     José's
> >     > point about it clobbering its own backups).
> >     >
> >     > In any case, I don't need you to explain it to me. You and I
> >     aren't the
> >     > only KiCad users, and if people who've been using KiCad for years
> and
> >     > have actual dev experience (specifically myself and José here)
> can't
> >     > figure it out, scads of users are going to have the same problem.
> It
> >     > needs to be made clearer, not explained on the mailing list.
> >     >
> >     > On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 02:55:31PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
> >     >> Let's start at the beginning.  Are you clear on why symbols need
> >     to be
> >     >> remapped?
> >     >>
> >     >> On 1/2/2018 2:52 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> >     >>> Honestly, with this symbol library stuff it's been hard for me
> >     to figure
> >     >>> out what's a bug and what's a confusing design decision. Bug
> >     reports for
> >     >>> the latter are rather frowned upon so I've been refraining from
> >     filing
> >     >>> many bugs.
> >     >>>
> >     >>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 02:51:14PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
> >     >>>> I just tested this repo and it failed to remap every symbol so
> >     either
> >     >>>> something has been broken or this project is a corner case that
> I
> >     >>>> haven't stumbled across yet.  I will keep informed of my
> >     progress.  In
> >     >>>> the future, please file bug report when you see something like
> >     this.  If
> >     >>>> you just discuss it on irc, I have no way of knowing this is an
> >     issue
> >     >>>> unless I manage to free up some time (unlikely any time soon)
> >     to spend
> >     >>>> on irc.
> >     >>>>
> >     >>>> On 1/2/2018 2:42 PM, José Ignacio wrote:
> >     >>>>> This sequence of actions is what puts the project on a stuffed
> >     up state:
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>> * Open schematic and be greeted with some symbols that need
> >     rescue,
> >     >>>>> rescue a couple symbols
> >     >>>>> * Be greeted by the remap dialog (1)
> >     >>>>> * Regret remapping and quit without save
> >     >>>>> * Open schematic again
> >     >>>>> * Be greeted by the rescue dialog, with ALL symbols, refuse
> >     >>>>> * Remap dialog fails to find anything, click through (2)
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>> Schematic looks fine, but the remap and rescue dialogs will
> >     show up
> >     >>>>> every time even though there is a valid sym-lib-table.
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>> (1) At this point the pro file is overwritten, deleting all
> >     project
> >     >>>>> library entries
> >     >>>>> (2) At this point the pro file is overwritten again!,
> >     clobbering the
> >     >>>>> backup (SOL)
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>> If you accept the second rescue you will have to map everything
> >     >>>>> manually. The remapper should really take the existing
> >     sym-lib-table or
> >     >>>>> just not clobber the pro file until the schematic is saved.
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>> The close without save step should be perfectly valid if
> >     you're just
> >     >>>>> peeking at an old project and (possibly much later) you want
> to go
> >     >>>>> modify it you're greeted with that bad surprise.
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Chris Pavlina
> >     <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>
> >     >>>>> <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx
> >     <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>>     On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 02:20:10PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh
> >     wrote:
> >     >>>>>     > It's exactly as insane as the cache has always been.
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>>     I respectfully disagree. As I recall from many years of
> >     using KiCad
> >     >>>>>     before this, nothing about the cache has ever
> >     spontaneously deleted all
> >     >>>>>     libraries without warning. That's a whole new level of
> >     insanity that
> >     >>>>>     deserves its own "what not to do" section in a UX book
> >     somewhere. (And
> >     >>>>>     before you think this is all just "this UX guide sez"
> >     vague complaining,
> >     >>>>>     don't forget that I and many others still have _no idea
> >     wtf we're doing_
> >     >>>>>     trying to drive this thing.)
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>>     > The only way I can
> >     >>>>>     > think of this happening is that the schematic was not
> >     saved after the
> >     >>>>>     > remapping and once all of the libraries are removed from
> >     the project
> >     >>>>>     > file but cache should still be valid if no save was
> >     performed.  Let me
> >     >>>>>     > try remapping this project and I will get back to you.
> >     >>>>>     >
> >     >>>>>     > On 1/2/2018 2:08 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> >     >>>>>     > > Ah, that explains my question mark case. That's insane.
> >     >>>>>     > >
> >     >>>>>     > > On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 01:08:11PM -0600, José Ignacio
> >     wrote:
> >     >>>>>     > >> One big problem is that even if everything fails, the
> >     project
> >     >>>>>     will show up
> >     >>>>>     > >> fine with all symbols, but they wont have the remap
> >     done. at
> >     >>>>>     the same time
> >     >>>>>     > >> the remapper deletes all library entries from the
> >     project file,
> >     >>>>>     which
> >     >>>>>     > >> causes it to open with question marks only if you
> >     reopen it
> >     >>>>>     again after
> >     >>>>>     > >> saving. It should show the question marks before then
> >     or make
> >     >>>>>     better use of
> >     >>>>>     > >> the cache.
> >     >>>>>     > >>
> >     >>>>>     > >> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:44 PM, Chris Pavlina
> >     >>>>>     <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>
> >     <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>>>
> >     >>>>>     > >> wrote:
> >     >>>>>     > >>
> >     >>>>>     > >>> Keep in mind my problem is not necessarily that
> >     things are
> >     >>>>>     _broken_ but
> >     >>>>>     > >>> perhaps that they are so opaque that they only make
> >     sense in
> >     >>>>>     the mind of
> >     >>>>>     > >>> the designer. As I said in the previous message,
> >     we've been
> >     >>>>>     getting TONS
> >     >>>>>     > >>> of people on IRC who can't figure out how the hell
> >     to drive
> >     >>>>>     this thing,
> >     >>>>>     > >>> and I count myself among them. Still takes me like
> >     three tries
> >     >>>>>     to load
> >     >>>>>     > >>> an old project without it stuffing everything up.
> >     >>>>>     > >>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 01:40:40PM -0500, Wayne
> >     Stambaugh wrote:
> >     >>>>>     > >>>> Please send me a sample project if possible.  I
> >     have tested
> >     >>>>>     this every
> >     >>>>>     > >>>> which way I can think of and it works fine for
> >     everything I
> >     >>>>>     throw at it.
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>  The only time things fall apart are when the cache
> is
> >     >>>>>     corrupted or
> >     >>>>>     > >>>> missing and/or rescues have be ignored.  In those
> >     cases there
> >     >>>>>     is nothing
> >     >>>>>     > >>>> I can do because the proper symbols do not exist
> >     anywhere so
> >     >>>>>     remapping
> >     >>>>>     > >>>> is not possible.
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>> On 1/2/2018 1:33 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>> Are we really going to do an RC now without any
> >     more work to
> >     >>>>>     the remap
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>> stuff? I just had it ruin another project last
> >     night. It
> >     >>>>>     behaves very
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>> poorly when things also have to be rescued or
> >     libraries are
> >     >>>>>     missing, it
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>> seems.
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 09:10:20AM -0500, Wayne
> >     Stambaugh wrote:
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>> On 1/2/2018 8:58 AM, Tomasz Wlostowski wrote:
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>> On 28/12/17 20:24, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> There are a few outstanding crash bugs that
> >     need to be
> >     >>>>>     fixed before
> >     >>>>>     > >>> we
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> can consider branching the stable 5 release.
> >     Here is the
> >     >>>>>     list of
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> unresolved crash bugs that effect the
> >     development branch:
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788
> >     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788>
> >     >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788
> >     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274
> >     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274>
> >     >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274
> >     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872
> >     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872>
> >     >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872
> >     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999
> >     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999>
> >     >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999
> >     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614
> >     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614>
> >     >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614
> >     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253
> >     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253>
> >     >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253
> >     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>> Hey Wayne,
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>> I fixed the remaining 2 bugs yesterday (the STEP
> >     import
> >     >>>>>     one is a bug
> >     >>>>>     > >>> in
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>> OCE). Please proceed with the 5.0-rc.
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>> Tom
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>> Hi Tom,
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>> Thanks!.  I wont have time to get to this until
> the
> >     >>>>>     weekend.  If there
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>> are no additional critical severity bug reports
> >     by then, I
> >     >>>>>     will create
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>> the version 5 branch.
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>> Cheers,
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>> Wayne
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>> Mailing list:
> >     https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
> >     >>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>> Post to     :
> >     kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >     >>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>>>>> Unsubscribe :
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> >     >>>>>     > >>>
> >     >>>>>     > >>> _______________________________________________
> >     >>>>>     > >>> Mailing list:
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> >     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
> >     >>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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> >     >>>>>     > >>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>>
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
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