kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>]

I don't think you are giving our users much credit.  I could be wrong
but I would think most user understand that the schematic is not just
the current sheet.  There is a "Save Current Sheet" in the File menu.
I'm fine with dropping "Project" from the tooltip.  Maybe "Save all
schematic sheets" would be a better tooltip.

On 01/13/2018 03:50 PM, Jeff Young wrote:
> But without a tooltip, how is anyone to know that?  The window shows
> only a single sheet at a time.  One might be forgiven for concluding
> that the save button will only save the current one.  (Or even worrying
> that it might, and cycling through all the sheets hitting Save.)
> 
> Having a context-sensitive tooltip doesn’t get in the way or add more
> complexity — it just clarifies the issue for those who don’t know, or
> those who are worriers.
> 
> 
>> On 13 Jan 2018, at 20:10, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> Just because a schematic has more than one sheet (file), complex or
>> otherwise does not mean we have a different save context.  You are still
>> saving the current schematic no matter how may files are involved.
>> Please do *not* do this.
>>
>> On 01/13/2018 03:06 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov wrote:
>>> You already said the save will save everything, now you want to
>>> introduce differentiating icons/tooltips that will add complexity to the
>>> most simple tasks that will already do the implied function without the
>>> need for clarifying what is sheet and what is hierarchy. No changing
>>> tooltips based on single sheet vs hierarchy.
>>>
>>> Now that I understand what you are after.
>>>
>>> I suggest:
>>> Save icon with multiple diskettes (multiple will imply it will save
>>> everything, whether it's 1 sheet or hierarchy, the function will save
>>> all, so there's no need for a single diskette)
>>> Tooltip: ii
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 11:57 AM, Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx
>>> <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    Just to be clear on the context-specific options: the idea is to
>>>    make hierarchical schematics a progressive disclosure feature.  So a
>>>    less-sophisticated user happy with a one-sheet schematic wouldn’t
>>>    have to deal with tooltips and/or icons relating to hierarchies.
>>>
>>>    So there would always be a single icon visible at any given time
>>>    (and a single function available), but the icon and/or tooltip might
>>>    be different depending on the context.
>>>
>>>
>>>>    On 13 Jan 2018, at 19:48, Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>    <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    The /function/ is always the same: save as many sheets as there
>>>>    are.  The only question is how to communicate that to the user.
>>>>
>>>>    Your reply sounds like a vote for (a)(ii), although you weren’t
>>>>    specific about the tooltip side of things.
>>>>
>>>>    Cheers,
>>>>    Jeff.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>    On 13 Jan 2018, at 19:23, Andrey Kuznetsov <kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>    <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>    What is the problem with saving ALL schematics in the project
>>>>>    that have been edited, whether it's a 1 sheet or heirarchy sheet
>>>>>    project?
>>>>>    Are there times when you only want to save that sheet but not the
>>>>>    other sheets? If yes, then maybe add 2 save buttons, save and
>>>>>    save all, if not then just the save all button
>>>>>
>>>>>    I am against using schematic icon with a disk, too much complexity!
>>>>>
>>>>>    You should simply use:
>>>>>    Disk icon for Save
>>>>>    and/or
>>>>>    Multi-Disk icon for Save All
>>>>>
>>>>>    There is no purpose in indicating that you want to save a
>>>>>    schematic in a schematic application when calling for a Save.
>>>>>
>>>>>    On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>    <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>        The eeschema Save button’s tooltip reads “save schematic
>>>>>        /project/” (emphasis mine).  Because of that, it got the
>>>>>        project-with-superimposed-disk in the recent icon update.  I
>>>>>        don’t think either of those is optimal.
>>>>>
>>>>>        There are 3 distinct concepts:
>>>>>
>>>>>        1) Kicad projects (containing schematics, PCBs, gerbers, etc.)
>>>>>        2) A hierarchy of schematic sheets
>>>>>        3) A single schematic sheet
>>>>>
>>>>>        The differentiation between (2) and (3) is a bit confusing
>>>>>        because the eeschema window only deals with (2) while we
>>>>>        represent schemas in the file-system at (3).
>>>>>
>>>>>        But we should make every effort not to conflate (1) with
>>>>>        (2).  I think the word “project” should be reserved for use
>>>>>        in the context of (1).
>>>>>
>>>>>        So I can see 4 options for the eeschema Save option:
>>>>>
>>>>>        a) sidestep the issue and go with the arrow-to-disk icon (a
>>>>>        la pcbnew)
>>>>>        b) use a schematic-with-superimposed-disk icon
>>>>>        c) use a stacked-schematic-with-superimposed-disk icon (a la
>>>>>        the hierarchical-sheet-tool icon)
>>>>>        d) context-sensitive schematic or stacked-schematic icon
>>>>>
>>>>>        And a few for the tooltip:
>>>>>
>>>>>        i) use “save all schematics in hierarchy”
>>>>>        ii) use “save schematic(s)” 
>>>>>        iii) make it context-sensitive, reading either “save
>>>>>        schematic” or “save all schematics in hierarchy”
>>>>>
>>>>>        Personally, I think context-sensitivity is appropriate for
>>>>>        the tool-tip, but not the icon.  So I’d be inclined to go
>>>>>        with (b) or (c) and (iii).
>>>>>
>>>>>        As an aside, project files (*.pro) are still using the
>>>>>        application icon, rather than the Project icon.  That makes
>>>>>        the New Project / New Project from Template / Open Project
>>>>>        icons harder to understand.
>>>>>
>>>>>        Cheers,
>>>>>        Jeff.
>>>>>
>>>>>        BTW: I’m happy to help fix up any of these issues….
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    -- 
>>>>>    Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
>>>>>    Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to
>>>>>    miss the future [JFK]
>>>>>
>>>>>    kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>    Live Long and Prosper,
>>>>>    Andrey
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
>>> Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss the
>>> future [JFK]
>>>
>>> kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx
>>> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> Live Long and Prosper,
>>> Andrey
>>>
>>>
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>>
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