kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Those are interesting ideas.  My reading is that Andrey and Wayne are
actually proposing two different "linking" modes:

Andrey: linking Front and Back (i.e. checking Front pads also checks Back
pads)
Wayne: linking copper and render (i.e. checking F.Cu also checks Front pads)

Am I right about your suggestion, Wayne?

I think from my personal perspective as a user, I would expect by default
Wayne's link to be on and Andrey's to be off.
That is, by default if I turn off F.Cu I expect Front Pads to go away too,
but there might be edge cases where I want to turn on F.Cu and turn off
F.Pads or vice versa.

-Jon

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 8:59 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov <kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> Wayne,
> Yep, that's what I meant, kind of like the Photoshop linked layers.
>
> I should have added that the link is only between two of the same
> checkboxes that are front and bottom. Ie Front/Bottom Pads would have
> linkage, a different linkage would be between F/B Text, and another for
> etc...
>
> Please don't link multiple text/pads/vias/footprints together. I think
> linking should only be between Front and Bottom of the same item type.
> Maybe add a tiny horizontal separator between the pairs of Front and Bottom
> rows: ie
> Front Pads
> Bottom Pads
> -----------------
> Front Text
> Bottom Text
> -----------------
> etc
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 5:49 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
>> I was thinking the same thing but rather than locked, I was thinking
>> linked to the layer but the concept is the same.  If they are  linked,
>> when the layer is turned off, so are the footprints on that layer.  When
>> they are unlinked, they are independent similar to the current behavior.
>>  I would default to linked since that is what most users would expect.
>>
>> On 02/18/2018 08:42 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov wrote:
>> > Hi Jon,
>> >
>> > Make sure Andrews' patches are consistent with your commits, essentially
>> > don't commit if it'll end up as a hodge podge of code that even though
>> > it works is not coherent.
>> >
>> > I can see benefits to having control over showing front copper pads but
>> > hiding bottom copper pads, so I would keep them separate.
>> > If it's an annoyance to toggle both front and bottom copper checkboxes
>> > for pads, maybe a LOCK is warranted such that in a locked position, a
>> > toggle checkbox in either, toggles both checkboxes for front/bottom, and
>> > an unlocked state keeps them independent.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>> >
>> >     I'm going to go to the user forum with these questions too, but
>> >     curious what the devs think about this:
>> >
>> >     In my original RFC, I proposed eliminating the different between
>> >     "front" and "back" in the Render checkboxes.
>> >     I still think this makes sense for things like text and footprints,
>> >     but I'm having second thoughts about merging the "Pads Front" and
>> >     "Pads Back"
>> >     Right now we have pads set to a different color than other copper on
>> >     the front and back copper layers.
>> >     I guess some users probably like this and would get annoyed if we
>> >     removed the ability for pads to be a special color.
>> >     Will they get annoyed if we force them to set both the front and the
>> >     back pads to the same color?
>> >
>> >     (to be honest, I am used to EDA tools that by default treat pads as
>> >     part of the copper layer and show them in the same color, so I don't
>> >     care about this feature)
>> >
>> >     -Jon
>> >
>> >     On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 7:09 PM, Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >     <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>> >
>> >         Thanks Wayne and Jeff (and yes there are a lot of edge cases
>> >         here to sort out)
>> >
>> >         Note that Andrzej Wolski already did propose some changes
>> >         related to this that might be good to merge as a first step.
>> >         I have only done limited testing on them so far but they do work
>> >         and resolve some of the problems:
>> >
>> >         https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1743890/comments/6
>> >         <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1743890/comments/6>
>> >         https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg34009.html
>> >         <https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg34009.html>
>> >
>> >         -Jon
>> >
>> >         On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:53 PM, Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx
>> >         <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>> >
>> >             Hi Jon,
>> >
>> >             Sounds good to me too.  A few edge-cases you might want to
>> >             watch out for:
>> >
>> >             https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1733894
>> >             <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1733894>
>> >             https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1744521
>> >             <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1744521>
>> >             https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1744730
>> >             <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1744730>
>> >
>> >             Cheers,
>> >             Jeff.
>> >
>> >
>> >>             On 18 Feb 2018, at 22:36, Wayne Stambaugh
>> >>             <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>             Hey Jon,
>> >>
>> >>             I'm good with all of this.  I would like to get this
>> >>             cleaned up before the stable release if possible since
>> >>             there are so many complaints and bug reports about it.
>> >>
>> >>             Thanks,
>> >>
>> >>             Wayne
>> >>
>> >>             On 02/18/2018 03:00 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
>> >>>             Hi all,
>> >>>             Right now the behavior of the "Layer" and "Render" tabs
>> >>>             of the layers widget are confusing to users, resulting in
>> >>>             complaints on the forum and some bug reports:
>> >>>             https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1748181
>> >>>             <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1748181>
>> >>>             https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1743890
>> >>>             <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1743890>
>> >>>             I could take a crack at fixing this (before or after 5.0
>> >>>             depending on what the complexity ends up being) but
>> >>>             before I write any code I wanted to propose how I think
>> >>>             it should work.
>> >>>             I think the visibility of any object should be the AND of
>> >>>             layer visibility and render visibility.
>> >>>             To get there:
>> >>>             1) In the Render tab, get rid of the distinction between
>> >>>             front/back. For example "Pads Back" and "Pads Front"
>> >>>             becomes just "Pads"
>> >>>             2) Change the visibility code so that an object is
>> >>>             visible if (a) the associated Render setting is turned on
>> >>>             for the type of object, and (b) at least one of the
>> >>>             layers the object is on is enabled in the Layers tab.
>> >>>             3) (optionally) Rename "Render" to something more
>> >>>             friendly like "Items" or "Item Types" to make it more
>> >>>             clear to the user that this is where they can turn off
>> >>>             the display of various types of items as opposed to
>> >>>             various layerse
>> >>>             If this plan is OK, I will start working out the details
>> >>>             of how to get there.  Right now the Render tab is
>> >>>             directly controlling the visibility of certain "GAL
>> >>>             Layers" but unfortunately the set of objects that appears
>> >>>             on one GAL layer is not always equal to the set of
>> >>>             objects that the user would expect to turn on and off, as
>> >>>             seen by the bug reports.  So, there will have to be some
>> >>>             additional logic created to manage these settings beyond
>> >>>             just turning on and off layers in the GAL.
>> >>>             -Jon
>> >>>             _______________________________________________
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>> >>
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>> >
>> >
>> >             _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >     _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
>> > Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss the
>> > future [JFK]
>> >
>> > kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
>> > Live Long and Prosper,
>> > Andrey
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
> Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss the
> future [JFK]
>
> kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx
> Live Long and Prosper,
> Andrey
>