kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>]

I'm agreeing with Andy on this one.  I really don't like the idea of
putting UI or print/plot state information in the board file.  Most of
the current state information was added by my predecessor.  I've never
liked the idea of UI state information being saved in the board file.
Andy pointed out that the same argument could be made for the project
file which makes sense to me.  An intermediate file seems like a
reasonable compromise.  I know this is one of those arguments that users
are going to disagree about.  I'll save everyone the hassle of arguing
about it by saying that as long as I am project manager, no additional
UI states are going to be added to any of the file formats.  If there
was some way I could remove them from the current board file format
without wrecking compatibility, I would.

Cheers,

Wayne

On 2/22/2018 1:07 PM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
> I agree. I think layer visibility data should be saved in board file
> because that file should be independent of project file and any other
> files. I would like to be able to send only pcb file via email, and have
> all information contained there.
> 
> Some solution to problem Andy described might be not to mark board
> modified if only layer visibility was changed.
> 
> Both Altium and Kicad have small hole here: board is not marked modified
> if you flip view or enable high contrast mode, but it is marked if you
> enable/disable some layer :)
> 
> Andrzej
> 
> 
> On 02/22/2018 06:48 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
>> The tradeoff there is that other users will have a workflow that
>> involves setting up a nice set of layers displayed/hidden for working
>> on a board, and want to switch to another set for another board.
>> Maybe saving in the app preferences is okay in the short term, but I
>> think eventually it's best to be able to save custom display states
>> (including layer visibility and other options) in the project.
>> Other software has solved this problem by making multiple project
>> files, and having the idea of the "base" project file and the "user
>> settings" project file, with the latter explicitly not going in to
>> version control.
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:15 PM, Andy Peters <devel@xxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:devel@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     On Feb 22, 2018, at 7:58 AM, Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>     <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Currently some of the render visibility stuff is saved in the
>>>     application preferences, and some is not saved.
>>>     I think if there are layers related to board item visibility that
>>>     aren't saved, saving them in the project or board makes more
>>>     sense than saving in the app config.
>>
>>     User perspective:
>>
>>     Saving the render visibility in the project or pcb file “touches”
>>     that file, so Kicad will want to save the file when you close the
>>     project or PCB. And then your source-code control system thinks
>>     that the file has been modified (because it was!). This sort of
>>     change has nothing to do with the design, it is only a
>>     rendering/display detail.
>>
>>     A common example: I often use pcbnew (or Altium, it has the same
>>     problem) to view a design, without intending to actually modify
>>     it. And when doing that, I often change layer visibility and such.
>>     When closing the pcb file, the user will be asked to save the
>>     file. “But all I did was look at different layers .. I didn’t
>>     change the design!” 
>>
>>     So, please, don’t keep layer visibility/rendering information in
>>     the pcb or project file!
>>
>>     -a
>>
>>>
>>>     Re. 3, yes I think that same framework could be used to add some
>>>     shortcuts for the "render" side pretty easily.
>>>
>>>     Re. 2, seems reasonable, haven't looked at the code yet
>>>
>>>     I can probably tackle this but can also leave it to Andrzej if
>>>     you are interested in it.
>>>
>>>     @Wayne I guess the first patch can be merged now if you are OK
>>>     with it, since Jeff isn't worried about conflicts?
>>>
>>>     -Jon
>>>
>>>     On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 9:53 AM, Wayne Stambaugh
>>>     <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         On 2/22/2018 9:10 AM, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
>>>         > If some work on Render panel is still being done, I would
>>>         have some
>>>         > suggestions:
>>>         > 1. "Text Front" and "Text Back" should be renamed to
>>>         something like
>>>         > "Footpr. Text Front" It is misleading now.
>>>
>>>         I'm fine with this but please do not abbreviate the word
>>>         footprint.
>>>
>>>         > 2. "Bl/Bburied Via" and "Micro Via" could be hidden if they
>>>         are disabled
>>>         > in design settings.
>>>
>>>         This makes sense as long as you do not couple the layer
>>>         manager UI code
>>>         to the board object code.
>>>
>>>         > 3. It would be nice to have right click menu with something
>>>         like:
>>>         >     "Show all footprint related"
>>>         >     "Hide all footprint related"
>>>         >     "Show all free primitives"
>>>         >     "Hide all free primitives"
>>>         >     "Show all other???"
>>>         >     "Hide all other???"
>>>         >     "Show all"
>>>         >     "Hide all"
>>>
>>>         Don't we already have something like this in the layer
>>>         manager (see
>>>         attached image)?
>>>
>>>         > 4. State of some checkboxes is not saved.
>>>
>>>         I think only the layer visibility states are saved in the
>>>         board file.  I
>>>         would rather not add any more non-board related information
>>>         the board
>>>         file format than is already there.  This state information
>>>         could be
>>>         saved in the project file or the application config file.  My
>>>         preference
>>>         is the project file but it's not a strong preference.
>>>
>>>         >
>>>         > If you can't, I could do some of these changes (if it's not
>>>         too late for
>>>         > them).
>>>         >
>>>         > Cheers,
>>>         > Andrzej
>>>         >
>>>         >
>>>         > W dniu 2018-02-22 o 05:39, Jon Evans pisze:
>>>         >> Hi all,
>>>         >>
>>>         >> This patch rearranges the Render panel to be in a more
>>>         logical order,
>>>         >> and adds some whitespace.
>>>         >> I divided it into three groupings:
>>>         >> 1) footprint related
>>>         >> 2) other board objects
>>>         >> 3) non-board stuff like grid, ratlines, etc.
>>>         >>
>>>         >> I also bumped out the default size so that scrollbars
>>>         aren't needed by
>>>         >> default on my Linux system.
>>>         >>
>>>
>>
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