kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[hauptmech <hauptmech@xxxxxxxxx>]

No comments on the current discussion, it all makes sense. Just want to
point out a couple things in case they were missed.

The layers are being deleted (instead of disabled) to prevent DRC problems
and prevent file cruft, according to comments in the code.

kicad plugin is deleting layers from footprints when it saves a board by
omitting layers not enabled. If you think removing layers from footprints
is a bad idea, you will need to fix that.


>From a user point of view I would prefer layer setup to not delete
anything. I can use the global deletion tool to delete ghings if i need. If
there is DRC problems on a disabled layer, an exra note that the layer is
disabled in the drc message would help.

On Fri, 23 Mar 2018, 07:34 jp charras, <jp.charras@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Le 22/03/2018 à 18:48, Andrey Kuznetsov a écrit :
> > I thought we were talking about deleting layers, not disabling them?
>
> Both.
> The dialog disables layers.
> How to manage items living on disabled layers (considering they can live
> on more than one layer,
> like pads and keepout zones)?
>
> Currently, I certainly do not see this problem as fixed.
>
> >
> > I agree with Wayne, a footprint is a whole item, deleting part of it
> means it is no longer valid,
> > and thus must be removed.
> >
> > What if someone wants to remove the silkscreen layer because they don't
> want it for production? I
> > guess they can just delete the silk gerber before sending it in. I can't
> think of a reason someone
> > would want to delete a layer on a final product, without being able to
> do it through gerber files.
> > Otherwise deleting layers would be done during initial design stage
> where someone is trying to
> > figure out how many layers to have, but if they delete a top layer with
> all the SMDs on it, then
> > well, they should be warned about it, and if they choose to delete it,
> it's their fault and they
> > will have to undo or reimport all the items again.
>
> Plot files has its own layer list.
> Anyway, plot file list is not only the layers needed to make a board.
> Fabrication files are needed only for assembly.
> Gerber files are for making the board.
> Other files are for assembly/documentation, and are usually not in Gerber
> format.
>
> >
> > Disabling a layer should never delete existing objects.
>
> However this topic is about deleting objects living on disabled layers.
>
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 10:15 AM, jp charras <jp.charras@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jp.charras@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >     Le 21/03/2018 à 17:46, Wayne Stambaugh a écrit :
> >     > JP,
> >     >
> >     > Did you take a look at this patch?  I know we have talked about
> this in
> >     > the past and that the fix would not be easy.  Until we can define
> and
> >     > implement a complete solution, this could be a short term fix.
> When you
> >     > get a chance, please take a look at it an comment on it.
> >     >
> >     > hauptmech,
> >     >
> >     > I'm not sure about the idea of breaking a footprint (module) into
> layer
> >     > by layer pieces to match the removed layers.  Footprints are
> typically
> >     > thought of as atomic objects.  I wonder if it wouldn't be more
> prudent
> >     > to remove the footprint if any of it's layers are removed from the
> layer
> >     > list and warn the user that removing said layer(s) would result in
> >     > footprints being removed.
> >     >
> >     > Thanks,
> >     >
> >     > Wayne
> >     >
> >
> >     I had a look at this patch.
> >
> >     I do not think removing something to footprints already on board is
> a good idea.
> >
> >     I understand other board items can or must be removed when disabling
> a layer, but removing something
> >     to a footprint is breaking this footprint, that become no more
> reliable.
> >
> >     What happens if later, a disabled layer like a silkscreen is
> re-enabled for some reason?
> >     Footprints carefully designed are now broken.
> >
> >     Like Seth, I am thinking disabling a layer (disabling is not
> deleting) should not modify footprints.
> >
> >     Currently, the Layer Setup dialog can create issues because it
> allows disabling layers that are now
> >     used in DRC (edge cuts, courtyard, and margin that should be used in
> V6 to create obstacles).
> >     Some other layers are mandatory to make a board: solder mask, solder
> paste.
> >     These layers should be *always* enabled.
> >
> >     So a better fix is certainly not to delete something in footprints,
> but do not allow disabling these
> >     mandatory layers, and for others layers, display a warning if a
> disabled layer is in use in a
> >     footprint.
> >
> >     For me, the major bug is in the Layer Setup dialog that allows
> disabling any layer.
> >
> >
> >     > On 3/20/2018 4:19 AM, Eeli Kaikkonen wrote:
> >     >> 2018-03-20 0:19 GMT+02:00 Seth Hillbrand <
> seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx>
> >     >> <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx
> >>>:
> >     >>
> >     >>
> >     >>     As it is, the patch resolves an issue and creates another.
> >     >>
> >     >>
> >     >> Actually Seth is wrong here. It doesn't create another problem.
> Namely,
> >     >> as the code without the patch works now, it leaves the board
> uneditable
> >     >> anyways, and without a warning. Just test with a footprint which
> has
> >     >> nothing but ref and value and one paste-only pad. It doesn't
> matter
> >     >> whether the pad is left there or removed after the layer is
> deleted. The
> >     >> footprint can't be selected or edited.
> >     >>
> >     >> I would still go with this patch, just add a sentence to the
> warning if
> >     >> pads are deleted. "Additionally this may lead to footprints which
> cannot
> >     >> be edited or deleted" or something like that.
> >
> >     --
> >     Jean-Pierre CHARRAS--
> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>
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