kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>]

I agree.  There is utility in both the actual area of a board and the
manufacturing area.  The latter should be fairly trivial to implement.

Cheers,

Wayne

On 7/29/19 9:30 AM, Clemens Koller wrote:
> Hi!
> I think it could be good to see both:
> - The actual PCB area of the outline (well, without drills).
> - The max-width * max-height which is usually what you have to pay for when you get it manufactured.
> The second one could be also an interesting task to calculate if you have an odd shaped polygonal outline.
> 
> Regards,
> Clemens
> 
> 
> On 29/07/2019 14.43, Alexander Shuklin wrote:
>>   Hi! I've been asked to do actually PCB area calculation. Since English is not my first language, maybe I just miss-understood. Do you mean, that area has to be just max width * max height? I never seen that, but there's a message in thread about sometimes you need proper area.
>> I utilized kicad outline functions for that.
>>
>>
>>     Понедельник, 29 июля 2019, 15:35 +03:00 от Mark Roszko <mark.roszko@xxxxxxxxx>:
>>
>>     Huh, looking at the statistics code, it actually tries and find the more "detailed area" of a board based on any polygonal outline.
>>     Is there any value in it this way? PCB manufacturing charges are generally per-square area  because ultimately the price is on panel space you are using. 
>>
>>     On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 5:07 AM Diego Herranz <diegoherranz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <//e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3adiegoherranz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>>         I've been testing this dialog and I think it is a nice addition. Thanks!
>>
>>         There seems to be something wrong with the area calculation, though. See image below:
>>         area.png
>>
>>         Thanks,
>>         Diego
>>
>>         On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 11:18, Ian McInerney <Ian.S.McInerney@xxxxxxxx <//e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3aIan.S.McInerney@xxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>>             Alexander,
>>
>>             Instead of declaring the 2 static variables separately, I would suggest creating a struct for the settings then store that as the static variable. For an example of this see the dialog_create_array.cpp file. This way if any new options must be added in the future, they can just be added to the struct very easily.
>>
>>             -Ian
>>
>>             On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 9:39 PM Alexander Shuklin <jasuramme@xxxxxxx <//e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3ajasuramme@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>>                 Damn ><,
>>                 don't use last patch, please.
>>                 It doesn't count total vias amount. Use this one.
>>
>>
>>                     Понедельник, 22 июля 2019, 22:14 +03:00 от Alexander Shuklin <jasuramme@xxxxxxx <//e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3ajasuramme@xxxxxxx>>:
>>
>>                     Hi,
>>                     thanks for sharing experience, as I never used that translations or wxWidgets before. And I have no idea where else could I get that information. ))
>>                     So, there's the patch with vias information and some tiny improvements.
>>
>>
>>                         Понедельник, 22 июля 2019, 13:34 +03:00 от Ian McInerney <ian.s.mcinerney@xxxxxxxx <//e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3aian.s.mcinerney@xxxxxxxx>>:
>>
>>
>>
>>                         On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 11:03 AM Dino Ghilardi <dino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx <http://e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3adino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>>                             Hi Alexander,
>>
>>                             One possible solution for the translation could be put the ":" in a
>>                             different column of the table and right-align the field description text
>>                             (so all the colons will be aligned). A rapid google search shown that in
>>                             French and Vietnamese there should be a space before the colon, while in
>>                             the rest of the world there is not, so having the translation for the
>>                             ":" word seems to make sense. Also another question arises: Is there
>>                             some language in which the colon should be another character before the
>>                             word? (I'm thinking about spanish where the question mark upside-down
>>                             appears before a question...)? ...conclusion: keeping "Height:" and
>>                             "Height" as two different words seem to be the solution that gives
>>                             maximum flexibility to translators.
>>
>>
>>                         This actually doesn't give them as much flexibility. When translations are done, they need to examine the entire string that needs translating, so the ":" character should be included in the string. Separating out the two portions is the equivalent of saying that every lanugage will follow the same compositional rules.
>>                          
>>
>>                             Another possible solution (probably better then the one above since it
>>                             just removes the problem) is to remove the ":" and have the cell borders
>>                             in a different color, just like the tables in the "board setup" dialog
>>                             (so that you can also take a look at that code to solve also the color
>>                             problem seeing how it was solved there). The advantage of this approach
>>                             is also having a more consistent "look" through all the dialogs.
>>
>>
>>
>>                             P.S. (a little bit off-topic):
>>                             If you move the statistic window and check/uncheck one of the checkboxes
>>                             ("subctract holes...." or "Exclude components...") the window "jumps" to
>>                             the center of the screen (its default position on open): do you have
>>                             also this behaviour or it is just on my debian-linux with gtk3?
>>
>>
>>                             Cheers,
>>                             Dino.
>>
>>                             On 22/07/19 10:13, Alexander Shuklin wrote:
>>                             > Hi!
>>                             > I'll have a look to add vias count to dialog.
>>                             > There's some questions:
>>                             >
>>                             > 1)I don't have too much experience with wxdialogs. There was commit on
>>                             > master, which says:
>>                             >  >> remove settings for fg/bg color: the result is unpredictable: was
>>                             > black texts on black background on my computer.
>>                             > And now I have all tables with data just in white boxes. Is it how it
>>                             > meant to be, or just some misbehavior on different systems? I use
>>                             > archlinux x64 OS.
>>                             > there's screenshot in attachment
>>                             >
>>                             > 2) Can we use something like _( "Height" ) + ":" for translation, not _(
>>                             > "Height:" )? As far as I understand, now we will need to have 2
>>                             > translations, first for "Height" and second for "Height:" but that's
>>                             > basically same word.
>>                             >
>>                             >     Воскресенье, 21 июля 2019, 23:42 +03:00 от Dino Ghilardi
>>                             >     <dino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx <http://e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3adino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx>>:
>>                             >
>>                             >     Makes sense.
>>                             >     Instead of a generic "via count" a more complete table similar to the
>>                             >     one generated in the drill report file could be useful, but may be it
>>                             >     can became quite long if a lot of different drill sizes are used (ok,
>>                             >     scrollbars are made to handle that).
>>                             >     Also having "vias", "blind vias" and "microvias" count man make sense
>>                             >     (or at least having something like "microvias used: yes/no"), just to
>>                             >     have in board statistics the information about the need of an advanced
>>                             >     pcb manufacturing process.
>>                             >
>>                             >
>>                             >     Cheers,
>>                             >     Dino.
>>                             >
>>                             >
>>                             >     On 21/07/19 20:54, Mark Roszko wrote:
>>                             >      > > Since making every hole in the pcb costs time,  manufacturers
>>                             >      > calculate the price of the PCB using also that number.
>>                             >      >
>>                             >      > A long time ago, holes cost alot. These days if your manufacturer is
>>                             >      > charging alot per hole, you should run far away. Usually
>>                             >     manufactuers
>>                             >      > include 20k-40k holes in the base price per panel before they start
>>                             >      > charging you tiny penny amounts for more in some increments of
>>                             >      > thousands. The CNC machines these days as blazing fast at making the
>>                             >      > holes required and they charge more for the drill bit being worn
>>                             >     down
>>                             >      > than the time.
>>                             >      >
>>                             >      > What does actually cost money is via type and size. Blind vias make
>>                             >      > layer stackups a pain in the butt and micro vias needing lasers.
>>                             >      > And also going below some via size can significantly add cost
>>                             >     even if
>>                             >      > not at microvia size because it requires different machines with
>>                             >     more
>>                             >      > precision and smaller drill bits.
>>                             >      >
>>                             >      >
>>                             >      > If anything I would say to break down the statistics based on via
>>                             >     type.
>>                             >      >
>>                             >      > On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 1:55 PM Dino Ghilardi
>>                             >     <dino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx <http://e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3adino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx> <mailto:dino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx <http://e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3adino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx>>
>>                             >      > <mailto:dino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx <http://e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3adino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>                             >      >
>>                             >      > I just tried the board statistics dialog and looks good, I like it.
>>                             >      >
>>                             >      > A thing I'd like to have to make it better is adding the number
>>                             >     of vias
>>                             >      > to the statistics: Since making every hole in the pcb costs time,
>>                             >      > manufacturers calculate the price of the PCB using also that number.
>>                             >      >
>>                             >      > Also the option to save or print a text with the statistics report
>>                             >      > would
>>                             >      > be nice.
>>                             >      >
>>                             >      >
>>                             >      > Cheers,
>>                             >      > Dino.
>>                             >      >
>>                             >
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>>                             >
>>                             > --
>>                             > Alexander Shuklin
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>                     -- 
>>                     Alexander Shuklin
>>
>>
>>
>>                 -- 
>>                 Alexander Shuklin
>>
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>>
>>     -- 
>>     Mark
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Alexander Shuklin
>>
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