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Message #41742
Re: [PATCH] Board statistics dialog
I agree both are useful.
(Max width x Max height) area is useful as a worst case scenario for
manufacturing: it may end up being better depending on the shape of the
board and panel design.
Regarding actual area, I'm working on a project right now where I need to
provide an estimation of the weight of the board. Knowing the actual area
of FR4 is useful.
Thanks!
On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 at 14:33, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I agree. There is utility in both the actual area of a board and the
> manufacturing area. The latter should be fairly trivial to implement.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Wayne
>
> On 7/29/19 9:30 AM, Clemens Koller wrote:
> > Hi!
> > I think it could be good to see both:
> > - The actual PCB area of the outline (well, without drills).
> > - The max-width * max-height which is usually what you have to pay for
> when you get it manufactured.
> > The second one could be also an interesting task to calculate if you
> have an odd shaped polygonal outline.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Clemens
> >
> >
> > On 29/07/2019 14.43, Alexander Shuklin wrote:
> >> Hi! I've been asked to do actually PCB area calculation. Since
> English is not my first language, maybe I just miss-understood. Do you
> mean, that area has to be just max width * max height? I never seen that,
> but there's a message in thread about sometimes you need proper area.
> >> I utilized kicad outline functions for that.
> >>
> >>
> >> Понедельник, 29 июля 2019, 15:35 +03:00 от Mark Roszko <
> mark.roszko@xxxxxxxxx>:
> >>
> >> Huh, looking at the statistics code, it actually tries and find the
> more "detailed area" of a board based on any polygonal outline.
> >> Is there any value in it this way? PCB manufacturing charges are
> generally per-square area because ultimately the price is on panel space
> you are using.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 5:07 AM Diego Herranz <
> diegoherranz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <//
> e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3adiegoherranz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >>
> >> I've been testing this dialog and I think it is a nice
> addition. Thanks!
> >>
> >> There seems to be something wrong with the area calculation,
> though. See image below:
> >> area.png
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Diego
> >>
> >> On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 11:18, Ian McInerney <
> Ian.S.McInerney@xxxxxxxx <//
> e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3aIan.S.McInerney@xxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Alexander,
> >>
> >> Instead of declaring the 2 static variables separately, I
> would suggest creating a struct for the settings then store that as the
> static variable. For an example of this see the dialog_create_array.cpp
> file. This way if any new options must be added in the future, they can
> just be added to the struct very easily.
> >>
> >> -Ian
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 9:39 PM Alexander Shuklin <
> jasuramme@xxxxxxx <//e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3ajasuramme@xxxxxxx>>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Damn ><,
> >> don't use last patch, please.
> >> It doesn't count total vias amount. Use this one.
> >>
> >>
> >> Понедельник, 22 июля 2019, 22:14 +03:00 от
> Alexander Shuklin <jasuramme@xxxxxxx <//
> e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3ajasuramme@xxxxxxx>>:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> thanks for sharing experience, as I never used that
> translations or wxWidgets before. And I have no idea where else could I get
> that information. ))
> >> So, there's the patch with vias information and
> some tiny improvements.
> >>
> >>
> >> Понедельник, 22 июля 2019, 13:34 +03:00 от Ian
> McInerney <ian.s.mcinerney@xxxxxxxx <//
> e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3aian.s.mcinerney@xxxxxxxx>>:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 11:03 AM Dino Ghilardi <
> dino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx <
> http://e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3adino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Alexander,
> >>
> >> One possible solution for the translation
> could be put the ":" in a
> >> different column of the table and
> right-align the field description text
> >> (so all the colons will be aligned). A
> rapid google search shown that in
> >> French and Vietnamese there should be a
> space before the colon, while in
> >> the rest of the world there is not, so
> having the translation for the
> >> ":" word seems to make sense. Also another
> question arises: Is there
> >> some language in which the colon should be
> another character before the
> >> word? (I'm thinking about spanish where the
> question mark upside-down
> >> appears before a question...)?
> ...conclusion: keeping "Height:" and
> >> "Height" as two different words seem to be
> the solution that gives
> >> maximum flexibility to translators.
> >>
> >>
> >> This actually doesn't give them as much
> flexibility. When translations are done, they need to examine the entire
> string that needs translating, so the ":" character should be included in
> the string. Separating out the two portions is the equivalent of saying
> that every lanugage will follow the same compositional rules.
> >>
> >>
> >> Another possible solution (probably better
> then the one above since it
> >> just removes the problem) is to remove the
> ":" and have the cell borders
> >> in a different color, just like the tables
> in the "board setup" dialog
> >> (so that you can also take a look at that
> code to solve also the color
> >> problem seeing how it was solved there).
> The advantage of this approach
> >> is also having a more consistent "look"
> through all the dialogs.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> P.S. (a little bit off-topic):
> >> If you move the statistic window and
> check/uncheck one of the checkboxes
> >> ("subctract holes...." or "Exclude
> components...") the window "jumps" to
> >> the center of the screen (its default
> position on open): do you have
> >> also this behaviour or it is just on my
> debian-linux with gtk3?
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Dino.
> >>
> >> On 22/07/19 10:13, Alexander Shuklin wrote:
> >> > Hi!
> >> > I'll have a look to add vias count to
> dialog.
> >> > There's some questions:
> >> >
> >> > 1)I don't have too much experience with
> wxdialogs. There was commit on
> >> > master, which says:
> >> > >> remove settings for fg/bg color: the
> result is unpredictable: was
> >> > black texts on black background on my
> computer.
> >> > And now I have all tables with data just
> in white boxes. Is it how it
> >> > meant to be, or just some misbehavior on
> different systems? I use
> >> > archlinux x64 OS.
> >> > there's screenshot in attachment
> >> >
> >> > 2) Can we use something like _( "Height"
> ) + ":" for translation, not _(
> >> > "Height:" )? As far as I understand, now
> we will need to have 2
> >> > translations, first for "Height" and
> second for "Height:" but that's
> >> > basically same word.
> >> >
> >> > Воскресенье, 21 июля 2019, 23:42
> +03:00 от Dino Ghilardi
> >> > <dino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx <
> http://e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3adino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx>>:
> >> >
> >> > Makes sense.
> >> > Instead of a generic "via count" a
> more complete table similar to the
> >> > one generated in the drill report
> file could be useful, but may be it
> >> > can became quite long if a lot of
> different drill sizes are used (ok,
> >> > scrollbars are made to handle that).
> >> > Also having "vias", "blind vias" and
> "microvias" count man make sense
> >> > (or at least having something like
> "microvias used: yes/no"), just to
> >> > have in board statistics the
> information about the need of an advanced
> >> > pcb manufacturing process.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > Dino.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 21/07/19 20:54, Mark Roszko wrote:
> >> > > > Since making every hole in the
> pcb costs time, manufacturers
> >> > > calculate the price of the PCB
> using also that number.
> >> > >
> >> > > A long time ago, holes cost alot.
> These days if your manufacturer is
> >> > > charging alot per hole, you should
> run far away. Usually
> >> > manufactuers
> >> > > include 20k-40k holes in the base
> price per panel before they start
> >> > > charging you tiny penny amounts
> for more in some increments of
> >> > > thousands. The CNC machines these
> days as blazing fast at making the
> >> > > holes required and they charge
> more for the drill bit being worn
> >> > down
> >> > > than the time.
> >> > >
> >> > > What does actually cost money is
> via type and size. Blind vias make
> >> > > layer stackups a pain in the butt
> and micro vias needing lasers.
> >> > > And also going below some via size
> can significantly add cost
> >> > even if
> >> > > not at microvia size because it
> requires different machines with
> >> > more
> >> > > precision and smaller drill bits.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > If anything I would say to break
> down the statistics based on via
> >> > type.
> >> > >
> >> > > On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 1:55 PM
> Dino Ghilardi
> >> > <dino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx <
> http://e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3adino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx> <mailto:
> dino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx <
> http://e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3adino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx>>
> >> > > <mailto:dino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx <
> http://e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3adino.ghilardi@xxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > I just tried the board statistics
> dialog and looks good, I like it.
> >> > >
> >> > > A thing I'd like to have to make
> it better is adding the number
> >> > of vias
> >> > > to the statistics: Since making
> every hole in the pcb costs time,
> >> > > manufacturers calculate the price
> of the PCB using also that number.
> >> > >
> >> > > Also the option to save or print a
> text with the statistics report
> >> > > would
> >> > > be nice.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Cheers,
> >> > > Dino.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> _______________________________________________
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> >> > Post to :
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> >
> >> > <mailto:
> kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <
> http://e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3akicad%2ddevelopers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Alexander Shuklin
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Alexander Shuklin
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Alexander Shuklin
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Alexander Shuklin
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
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> >
>
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