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Re: Lubuntu on an old PPC


Meant to pick up on that earlier, as time and time again has shown it often
still comes down to a gap in communication or a missing link of sorts
between the different ppl ("players") aside from bothering Michael Ellerman
some months ago I haven't made further contact.

Wolfram Sang might be someone we could approach!?
I might add that one route we might want to aim for is to shoot things
upstream to Debian. Since we're not on a tight development cycle (LTS
only for Lubuntu PPC), that gives us some time. We just need to make
some friends involved with Debian PPC. Does anyone already have any
contacts? If not, let me know and I'll go searching.

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Boris Reinhard
<reinhard.boris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> It's complicated, for various reasons some stuff works while some can only
> run due to extensive workarounds, with heavy performance compromises or
> doesn't run at all.
> You have to keep in mind ppc macs are only supported on community effort,
> ppl do not get paid anymore to fix stuff for our old ppc Macs. That is why
> we need testing, to locate issues as good as we can and hopefully bring it
> to someones attention via various means, someone who can actually do
> something about it.
> The hardware pool for that however and manpower is not that huge and even
> you have that part covered how to translate it into an actual progress is
> another matter entirely.
> It is my understanding we on ppc Macs basically gain mostly from stuff on
> the side, stuff ppl do on the side of their work they actually get paid
> or mostly in their spare time on the side, as you probably can imagine
> is not ideal to get things fixed as ppl have to actually look into it and
> simply stating an issue is not even close to having it fixed and it wont
> magically fix itself either.
> There are few ppl left interested and able to look into ppc mac related
> issues. Maybe there are much more but I feel like there is a bit of a
> communication struggel so a person who located an issue might not be able
> get in direct contact with the correct someone who could help or that
> someone is busy with much higher priority work and eventually things are
> forgotten or dragged out over years.
> The ppc kernel devel or other lists where parts that come up now and then
> ppc issues, eg. mesa or nouveau, have a certain procedure and lingo to it,
> certain requirements, to the outsider, everyone not familiar with
> development of such things or the way things and ppl are connected there
> used to work and communicate in these circles have basically really slim
> chances to participate or correctly bring attention to specific issues
> would need some looking into by someone in the know, also without stepping
> on someones toe.
> Ppl far more experienced than me don't even seem to post there, I can only
> imagine they are facing a similar dilemma, a wrongly or badly drafted post
> there could easily do more harm than good.
> There are some brave enthusiasts however who every now and then pop up,
> they can only do so much on their own,.. To some this might come as a
> surprise but that reminding Amiga community, did a lot that also aided our
> ppc mac community. Recently I saw a post where they actually raised a
> (collected money) to hire an external developer for work on optimizing
> codecs with altivec instructions to gain performance on ppc systems,
> that.
> I remember around the year of 2006 or so I was reading about how Linus
> Torvalds himself supposedly was running a Power Mac G5, ppl assumed they
> would get fixes, well guess what, not even the king of linux cared enough
> see this through (granted if it even was at all true and he was using
such a
> system, we do not even know to what extend), Power Mac G5 with Nvidia
> with nouveau, no fun at all, no way more typical Mac users could use such
> system under linux in any meaningful way. :(
> Of course there is always more to it, ppl grow older, have kids, lots of
> newer and more interesting stuff to spend their time on and of course the
> actual work to make ends meat and hopefully have enough time for as much
> everything else as possible. But still I can't help but feel sad about the
> unearthed potential of those late ppc Macs, which in many cases likely are
> going to waste quite literally.
> Grüße
> boris
> ps. on the rage128 issue try to enforce pci and disable agp transfer, so
> I had to do this for radeon and nouveau cases to get somewhat of a stable
> sytem.
> It's all there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCKnownIssues
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCFAQ
> null <meets@xxxxxx> schrieb am Mi., 11. März 2015 22:55:
>> Hi,
>> Sorry to disturb your methods, I am putting the order from first to last
>> and answering at
>> the bottom.
>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 14:20:15 -0700
>> Walter Lapchynski <wxl@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Mari <saltycat77@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > > But I am disappointed by the lack of PPC support-they are old
>> > > computers
>> > > people like to keep. Its mainly the issue with the old ATI rage Pro
>> > > 128
>> > > cards which is slowing down the install and keeping it from running
>> > > optimally (it should, in my opinion, run at least as well as OS X
>> > > Tiger does
>> > > and, in fact, should run faster).  While there seems to be a fix out
>> > > there
>> > > that Debian still maintains, Ubuntu dropped support for the PPC some
>> > > time
>> > > ago and I had trouble compiling the necessary files for installation
>> > > on the
>> > > powermac. I'm sure I will sort it out eventually but its clearly not
>> > > for the
>> > > novice.
>> > >
>> > > I wonder if there might be a way to maintain a Lubuntu repo for these
>> > > old
>> > > PPC computers, since Lubuntu is great for older hardware.
>> > Changes in Debian get synced downstream to Ubuntu. Where do you think
>> > the fix is?
>> Doesn't xserver-xorg-video-r128 work? This is what is supposed to work
>> ATI Rage Pro
>> 128:
>> https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo
>> I see the package in the list of files for PPC:
>> Perhaps some "dri" or "libdri" version 1 would not be available anymore
>> So? Mari, what would be missing you think? And why should it be faster
>> than the operating
>> system built for this architecture? (On a chan recently I've been told
>> that Linux boxes
>> dont make old Apple machines as optimally as the original OS'es, but I
>> don't know that, I
>> am not a Mac user).
>> Best regards,
>> Mélodie
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@wxl | http://polka.bike
Lubuntu Release Manager, Head of QA
Ubuntu PPC Point of Contact
Ubuntu Oregon LoCo Team Leader
Eugene Unix & GNU/Linux User Group Co-Organizer

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