maria-discuss team mailing list archive

[Arjen Lentz <arjen@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Paul

On 04/09/2009, at 7:10 PM, Paul McCullagh wrote:
> Thanks for giving us the inside on that one. It has been a point of  
> confusion for me, and I have read the GPL a few times to try to  
> figure it out.
Oh look the GPL and its FAQ sorts out most, and my article on the  
dev.mysql.com site from long ago was so clear and honest that Zack (VP  
Marketing) at the time had to protect it (and me ;-) against sales.
> In the meantime I am certain that my understanding is correct, that  
> there is nothing illegal about shipping mysqld with a closed source  
> program (as long as you don't link any part of the MySQL code).
Correct, but again that's also one of the cases where a salesperson  
will fuzz and "suggest" you get licenses anyway.
> And now that Sun themselves are maintaining a BSD client library,  
> that pretty much clears up the question of whether that is legal as  
> well (i.e. none of this, as discussed by Mark and yourself, the  
> protocol is GPL, therefore a client library must be GPL as well).
Yea that whole "protocol is GPL" can be safely ignored. GPL is for  
code, not specs.
The clients sales talk to have no clue about BSD client lib or such  
details, so it does not really change any opportunity.
Most unfortunate, I wish it did.
But at least the clueful gang out there can now use BSD client library  
and not complain about evil MySQL licensing.
That is good.

Cheers,
Arjen.


> On Sep 4, 2009, at 1:09 AM, Arjen Lentz wrote:
>
> > Hi Paul
> >
> > On 03/09/2009, at 10:54 PM, Paul McCullagh wrote:
> > > As far as I know, with the advent of the BSD licensed libdrizzle (https://launchpad.net/libdrizzle 
> > > ), which also runs with MySQL (and I assume MariaDB), the dual  
> > > licensing model is now irrelevant.
> > You're legally correct (apart from libmysqld type apps that link in  
> > the entire server) but that's not how it's been sold for the last 5  
> > years. The sales people's definition of "embedding" is not the same  
> > as what you and I see. They also futz with the definition of  
> > linking, and do some scare-mongering on IP risk (see, someone is  
> > making money -indirectly- off the SCO mess ;-)
> > The result is that they have clients that purchased licenses that  
> > didn't need them, for various reasons.
> > In 2007-2008 they even made the creator of an independent client  
> > library pay for interacting with the server; again that was done on  
> > the basis of risk. When I found out at the MySQL conf I slapped  
> > MySQL legal (I was already external) and told 'em if I ever saw it  
> > again I'd be quite public about it. They knew fulwell that there  
> > was no legal basis, and admitted as much. But it's happened since,  
> > this year in fact. So despite sane and conscientious lawyers, the  
> > fun continues. Revenue comes first.
> > With "risk" as the validation force, the sales attitude will not  
> > chance until that leverage no longer exists anywhere in the server.
> > The sales people run on commission and work with quarterly goals;  
> > they will do whatever it takes to close, including twist and lie.  
> > There is no "be a good citizen" or "be nice for the future". It's  
> > do the slick talk, close, and move on to the next client aka  
> > victim. It's essentially become an extortion scheme. But since  
> > clients can be presumed to be savvy enough to stand up for  
> > themselves or take appropriate legal advice, it's -as far as I  
> > know- legal. Doesn't make it right though.
> > There are good people at Sun, there are good people at MySQL, and  
> > there are even good Sales people at Sun/MySQL.
> > But MySQL AB regarded it was valid tactics ("necessary freedom to  
> > do their work" was what VP Kaj told me when I raised concern about  
> > tactics employed by Louis Fahrberger and Kerry Ancheta), and while  
> > Sun explicitly stating that this was not how it wanted to conduct  
> > its business, it has continued. It's very difficult to change  
> > what's essentially corporate policy. Specifically when the  
> > renumeration method for sales encourages (I won't say necessitates)  
> > it.
> > And thus I no longer direct anyone to a MySQL sales person; it  
> > wouldn't be a fair thing to do to a fellow human being.
> > Hence my opinion that dual licensing needs to go, from all parts of  
> > the server. Otherwise this will not stop.
> > Having the BSD client library by Eric Day is fabulous both for  
> > licensing and for its nice design, but unfortunately it hasn't made  
> > the sales problem go away yet.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Arjen.
> > --
> > Arjen Lentz, Exec.Director @ Open Query (http://openquery.com)
> > Exceptional Services for MySQL at a fixed budget.
> >
> > Follow our blog at http://openquery.com/blog/
> > OurDelta: enhanced builds for MySQL @ http://ourdelta.org
>
>
> --
> Paul McCullagh
> PrimeBase Technologies
> www.primebase.org
> www.blobstreaming.org
> pbxt.blogspot.com
--
Arjen Lentz, Exec.Director @ Open Query (http://openquery.com)
Exceptional Services for MySQL at a fixed budget.

Follow our blog at http://openquery.com/blog/
OurDelta: enhanced builds for MySQL @ http://ourdelta.org