mimblewimble team mailing list archive

[Alexander Leishman <leishman3@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hey All,

So sorry I haven't been able to contribute code yet. I hope some time will
free up in my schedule soon. That said, here are my thoughts on the
marketing:

*Denomination*

I agree with Jackson that the denomination and the name of the chain will
probably have to be one in the same, unless we feel certain we can get
people to break the habit of using one name for both things. I doubt we'll
be able to do this.

"Quid" is short, sweet and familiar. Could the blockchain be named "Quid"
too? It doesn't sound terrible. At the risk of sounding too corporate, I
like to think about how any name we choose would come across to business
people and others completely unfamiliar with the project. "Mimblewimble" is
just not serious enough and I agree that name should be reserved for the
transaction protocol.

Here are a few ideas for the name of the chain and the unit of exchange
along with examples of using them in a sentence:

*- Mimble*: "I'm learning about Mimble, a new cryptocurrency". "I'll send
you 5,000 Mimble for lunch"
*- Quid* (Igno's idea, just seeing how it looks in example sentences). "I'm
learning about Quid, a new cryptocurrency". "I'll send you 5,000 Quid for
lunch"
- *Grin* (again not my idea) "I'm learning about Grin, a new
cryptocurrency". "I'll send you 5,000 Grin for lunch"

I'll try to think of more, but I don't want to change the flavor of the
project too much. I personally lean towards Mimble or Grin.

I also think that we shouldn't make the same mistake of the unit being too
large, like in Bitcoin, although it's tough to foresee what the price will
be.

*Symbol*

If we went with Mimble, we could maybe do a variant on this, muting the
harry potter lighting a bit.



[image: image.png]

*Foundation/Rules*

Is there a pressing need for funding and organization right now? It could
accelerate adoption and development but I think the Bitcoin foundation left
a bad taste in everyone's mouth. That said, I think we do need to pre-empt
any bad actors from creating an organization without any consent from the
people involved in the project. Even if the organization just hosts the
website and doesn't get involved with development I think it could be
useful to have as a defensive mechanism.

Since I'm not behind a pseudonym and I live in Silicon Valley, I'd be happy
to help get the ball rolling on anything we all agree would need to happen.
But this is a longer conversation that we should move to a new thread.

Regarding rules, I'd really like to avoid politics as long as possible
which we could do for a while if we all just act like adults. I lean
towards a policy of don't have rules until we need them.

I'm really looking forward to a bright future with all of you.


All the Best,
Alex Leishman



On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 10:21 PM Ignotus Peverell <
igno.peverell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Thank you Andrew. A thousand times this:
>
> > We"re making privacy *cheap* and *accessible*.
> >
> > People doing illicit things can afford privacy because there"s an
> immediate and
> > direct cost to them if they lose it (and likely a direct reward for
> maintaining
> > it, depending on the nature of their industry). Ordinary people who are
> being
> > surveilled or censored cannot afford this, because the costs are
> indirect and
> > invisible and they don"t get rewarded in any way. They"re just trying to
> pay
> > their rent and buy groceries without having advertisers targeting and
> manipulating
> > them, and to live their lives and support causes they want to without
> anybody
> > throwing rocks through their windows or breaking down their doors.
> >
> > These are the people we care about. They"re the ones who lose their
> privacy when
> > their banks and governments make it expensive or confusing or
> unavailable. Criminals
> > don"t give a shit.
>
>
> - Igno
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [Mimblewimble] Branding and messaging
> Local Time: September 6, 2017 6:32 PM
> UTC Time: September 6, 2017 6:32 PM
> From: apoelstra@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: Casey Rodarmor <casey@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> Ignotus Peverell <igno.peverell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> mimblewimble@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mimblewimble@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> On Wed, Sep 06, 2017 at 08:12:46AM +0000, Casey Rodarmor wrote:
> > I"ll bite!
> >
> >
> > Naming
> > ======
> >
> > 1. I think that MimbleWimble is more in the transaction type category,
> > instead of the blockchain type category.
> >
> > Perhaps it"s a silly distinction, but one of the things that I like so
> much
> > about Grin is that, if you squint a bit, it"s just a good ol" blockchain
> in
> > terms of proof of work, mining, and transaction propagation.
> >
> > So I might say that Grin is a bitcoin-style blockchain with mimblewimble
> > transactions, which have privacy and scaling benefits. (And, obviously,
> > turn the whole thing into quite the weird mutant, but don"t require a
> > different, untested, and much weaker security model, like proof of
> stake.)
> >
>
> +1 to this. It is true that Mimblewimble changes some aspects of how the
> chain
> works, but I"ve gotten a lot of questions from the public along the lines
> of
> "does MW use PoS/scrypt/ghost/whatever" and the answer is always "MW is
> totally
> agnostic to that stuff".
>
> > 2. I think Grin is a great name. Does it have a Harry Potter connection?
> I
> > always assumed that it was from Gellert Grindelwald"s name. Another
> really
> > apt connection is to the grin of the Cheshire Cat in Alice"s Adventures
> in
> > Wonderland. After all, it"s all that"s left after the rest of the beast
> has
> > disappeared.
> >
>
> Igno said somewhere that it comes from "gringotts" the wizarding bank. I
> like
> the Chesire Cat connection :P.
>
> > 3. May I suggest the galleon, the sickle and the knut[0]? The galleon
> would
> > be ether, the knut would be wei, and the sickle would be somewhere in the
> > middle. If there"s no utility to the sickle it could be left out, but it
> > might be good to have an intermediate unit, in case the price increases
> to
> > the point where galleons are too big, but knuts are still too small.
> >
> > I think ethereum goes overboard with naming subunits[1], but three might
> be
> > the sweet spot.
> >
>
> I"m a little worried about drawing the ire of Rowling or her lawyers. She"s
> historically been very friendly toward fan projects but a monetary system
> might
> be viewed as being in a different category. To the best of my knowledge
> she has
> never commented publicly or privately about Mimblewimble.
>
> >
> > Messaging
> > =========
> >
> > I think that above and beyond formulating a coherent value proposition,
> > it"s important to use terminology and framing which helps people
> understand
> > the advantages that a normal person would get from using Grin, and avoids
> > the impression that a privacy focused cryptocurrency only has illicit
> uses.
> > Zcashes messaging is good here, for example the "upholding
> confidentiality"
> > section on their home page[2].
> >
> > Words like "obfuscate", "anonymous", and "secret" aren"t good, since they
> > have negative connotations and conjure images of illicit activities.
> > However, words like "privacy" and "security" have positive connotations
> > that people can understand and relate to, and I think it"ll be an ongoing
> > but important challenge to keep the messaging consistent and on point
> here.
> >
> > [0] http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Wizarding_currency
> > [1] https://etherconverter.online
> > [2] https://z.cash
> >
>
> We"re not making private transactions possible, there are already a
> million ways
> to move wealth around the world covertly. We"re making privacy *cheap* and
> *accessible*.
>
> People doing illicit things can afford privacy because there"s an
> immediate and
> direct cost to them if they lose it (and likely a direct reward for
> maintaining
> it, depending on the nature of their industry). Ordinary people who are
> being
> surveilled or censored cannot afford this, because the costs are indirect
> and
> invisible and they don"t get rewarded in any way. They"re just trying to
> pay
> their rent and buy groceries without having advertisers targeting and
> manipulating
> them, and to live their lives and support causes they want to without
> anybody
> throwing rocks through their windows or breaking down their doors.
>
> These are the people we care about. They"re the ones who lose their
> privacy when
> their banks and governments make it expensive or confusing or unavailable.
> Criminals
> don"t give a shit.
>
>
> --
> Andrew Poelstra
> Mathematics Department, Blockstream
> Email: apoelstra at wpsoftware.net
> Web: https://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew
>
> "A goose alone, I suppose, can know the loneliness of geese
> who can never find their peace,
> whether north or south or west or east"
> --Joanna Newsom
>
>
> --
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