openlp-core team mailing list archive

[Samuel Findlay <samuel.findlay@xxxxxxxxx>]

I think the issue here is Jonathan and John are trying to see it from
the ordinary user's perspective, whereas Andreas and Tim are coming at
it primarily from a developer/designer perspective. As developers we
tend to look for "the nicest solution" within our very logical
understanding of the application's framework. We have a pretty clear
understanding of how the application is supposed to work so a lot of
user errors don't make much sense to us. The ordinary user, however, is
"attempting to do a task, getting there by imperfect approximations.
Don't think of the user as making errors; think of the actions as
approximations of what is desired." [1: Norman, 2002] Good application
design encourages the user to explore and discover, and tries not to
severely punish them for making errors.

> I think that the analogy is wrong. The delete icon in the songs media
> manager deletes the selected song. The delete icon in the bible manager
> deletes the bible. I cannot imagine that any user expects the verse to
> be deleted. It is a DELETE button and not a CLEAR-the-list-button (and
> as said before, I cannot imagine that a user wants to delete a verse
> from the bible).
The problem is, your ordinary user doesn't have as clear an understanding of all this. We all know that users do many "stupid" things which we can't quite imagine. But at the time the user does it, their action does seem logical to them. We should not punish them: a deleted Bible could be very difficult to replace 30mins before a service (whereas a deleted song can easily be retyped fairly quickly).

> What is difficult to understand about "Do you want to delete the Message?" in a tag marked "Delete Bible"?
The problem here is not that the dialog isn't clear enough, it's that many (Windows) users have been "trained" to ignore such confirmation dialogs. For example, whenever a user deletes a file on Windows, they have to say yes to a confirmation dialog. But many users are so used to clicking yes on such dialogs, they do so automatically ("muscle memory") before they even think about what they've done. That's one reason the Windows Recycle Bin is so well used!

> But the edit icon also works on the bible and not on the selected
> item(s). I am not saying that the current situation is perfect, but I do
> not see any better (!) solution.
I agree the edit icon is not very well placed. Have a look at the row of icons there: "Edit the selected Bible", "Delete the selected Bible", "Preview the selected Bible", "Send the selected Bible live", "Add the selected Bible to the service". Now that is confusing! The first two act on the Bible itself, but the last three act only on the selected verses. This is very different to the Songs manager, where all five of those icons act on the selected item.
The cleanest solution, IMO, would be to change the Bible Editor to Bible Maintenance. This would reflect the Songs manager where we have a "Song Maintenance" form for managing Authors, Topics, and Song Books. It would also then be very logical to have the "delete Bible" functionality within the Bible Maintenance form.

[1] Norman, D., 2002, "The Design of Everyday Things"

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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1016597

Title:
  Bible delete button is too accessible

Status in OpenLP - Worship Presentation Software:
  Opinion

Bug description:
  The ability to edit Bible meta-data and delete Bibles was recently
  added to the Bible plugin. There is now a "Delete the selected Bible"
  on the Bible plugin toolbar. I think this is far too
  accessible/visible for what is a non-reversible (no "undo") and
  therefore "dangerous" operation. Would be much safer if moved to
  inside the "Edit Bible" dialog.

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