openstack team mailing list archive

[Stefano Maffulli <stefano@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

George,

your opinion is best conveyed if it comes with a polite choice of words.
Please refrain from adding more of your references to excrements and
help the community make a decision.

/stef


On 07/12/2012 12:14 PM, George Reese wrote:
> So if Im not coding, I should shut up? 
> 
> I think you answered your own question. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 12, 2012, at 14:10, Brian Waldon <brian.waldon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:brian.waldon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> 
>> What exactly was so offensive about what I said? Communities like
>> OpenStack are built on top of people *doing* things, not *talking*
>> about things. I'm just asking you to contribute code or design help
>> rather than slanderous commentary.
>>
>> Brian " "Offensive" " Waldon
>>
>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 11:59 AM, George Reese wrote:
>>
>>> You evidently have not had to live with the interoperability
>>> nightmare known as OpenStack in the same way I have. Otherwise, you
>>> would find responses like Brian's much more offensive.
>>>
>>> -George
>>>
>>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 1:48 PM, Christopher B Ferris wrote:
>>>
>>>> This level of response is unnecessary. 
>>>>
>>>> That said, the perspectives which influenced the decision seemed
>>>> somewhat weighted to the development community. I could be wrong,
>>>> but I did not see much input from the operations community as to the
>>>> impact.
>>>>
>>>> Clearly, going forward, we want to be more deliberate about changes
>>>> that may have impact on operations and he broader ecosystem that
>>>> bases its efforts on assumptions established at the start of a
>>>> release cycle, rather than on changes introduced late in the cycle.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 2:24 PM, "George Reese"
>>>> <george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, I think overall OpenStack has done an absolute shit job of
>>>>> compatibility and I had hoped (and made a huge point of this at the
>>>>> OpenStack conference) Diablo -> Essex would be the end of this
>>>>> compatibility bullshit.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the attitudes in this thread and with respect to the whole
>>>>> Cinder question in general suggest to me that this cavalier
>>>>> attitude towards forward migration hasn't changed.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you can kiss my ass.
>>>>>
>>>>> -George
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 12:11 PM, Brian Waldon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We actually care a hell of a lot about compatibility. We also
>>>>>> recognize there are times when we have to sacrifice compatibility
>>>>>> so we can move forward at a reasonable pace.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you think we are handling anything the wrong way, we would love
>>>>>> to hear your suggestions. If you just want to make comments like
>>>>>> this, I would suggest you keep them to yourself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have a great day!
>>>>>> Brian Waldon
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 9:32 AM, George Reese wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This community just doesn't give a rat's ass about compatibility,
>>>>>>> does it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -George
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 11, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now that the PPB has decided to promote Cinder to core for the
>>>>>>>> Folsom
>>>>>>>> release, we need to decide what happens to the existing Nova Volume
>>>>>>>> code. As far as I can see it there are two basic strategies. I'm
>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>> to give an overview of each here:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Option 1 -- Remove Nova Volume
>>>>>>>> ==============================
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Process
>>>>>>>> -------
>>>>>>>> * Remove all nova-volume code from the nova project
>>>>>>>> * Leave the existing nova-volume database upgrades and tables in
>>>>>>>>   place for Folsom to allow for migration
>>>>>>>> * Provide a simple script in cinder to copy data from the nova
>>>>>>>>   database to the cinder database (The schema for the tables in
>>>>>>>>   cinder are equivalent to the current nova tables)
>>>>>>>> * Work with package maintainers to provide a package based upgrade
>>>>>>>>   from nova-volume packages to cinder packages
>>>>>>>> * Remove the db tables immediately after Folsom
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Disadvantages
>>>>>>>> -------------
>>>>>>>> * Forces deployments to go through the process of migrating to
>>>>>>>> cinder
>>>>>>>>   if they want to use volumes in the Folsom release
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Option 2 -- Deprecate Nova Volume
>>>>>>>> =================================
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Process
>>>>>>>> -------
>>>>>>>> * Mark the nova-volume code deprecated but leave it in the project
>>>>>>>>   for the folsom release
>>>>>>>> * Provide a migration path at folsom
>>>>>>>> * Backport bugfixes to nova-volume throughout the G-cycle
>>>>>>>> * Provide a second migration path at G
>>>>>>>> * Package maintainers can decide when to migrate to cinder
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Disadvantages
>>>>>>>> -------------
>>>>>>>> * Extra maintenance effort
>>>>>>>> * More confusion about storage in openstack
>>>>>>>> * More complicated upgrade paths need to be supported
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Personally I think Option 1 is a much more manageable strategy
>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>> the volume code doesn't get a whole lot of attention. I want to keep
>>>>>>>> things simple and clean with one deployment strategy. My opinion
>>>>>>>> is that
>>>>>>>> if we choose option 2 we will be sacrificing significant feature
>>>>>>>> development in G in order to continue to maintain nova-volume
>>>>>>>> for another
>>>>>>>> release.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But we really need to know if this is going to cause major pain
>>>>>>>> to existing
>>>>>>>> deployments out there. If it causes a bad experience for
>>>>>>>> deployers we
>>>>>>>> need to take our medicine and go with option 2. Keep in mind that it
>>>>>>>> shouldn't make any difference to end users whether cinder or
>>>>>>>> nova-volume
>>>>>>>> is being used. The current nova-client can use either one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vish
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>>>>>>>> Post to     : openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> <mailto:openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> George Reese - Chief Technology Officer, enStratus
>>>>>>> e: george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> <mailto:george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>    Skype: nspollution    t:
>>>>>>> @GeorgeReese    p: +1.207.956.0217
>>>>>>> enStratus: Enterprise Cloud Management - @enStratus
>>>>>>> - http://www.enstratus.com <http://www.enstratus.com/>
>>>>>>> To schedule a meeting with me: http://tungle.me/GeorgeReese
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>>>>>>> Post to     : openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> <mailto:openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> George Reese - Chief Technology Officer, enStratus
>>>>> e: george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
>>>>>   Skype: nspollution    t: @GeorgeReese    p: +1.207.956.0217
>>>>> enStratus: Enterprise Cloud Management - @enStratus
>>>>> - http://www.enstratus.com <http://www.enstratus.com/>
>>>>> To schedule a meeting with me: http://tungle.me/GeorgeReese
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>>>>> Post to     : openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>> --
>>> George Reese - Chief Technology Officer, enStratus
>>> e: george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>   
>>> Skype: nspollution    t: @GeorgeReese    p: +1.207.956.0217
>>> enStratus: Enterprise Cloud Management - @enStratus
>>> - http://www.enstratus.com <http://www.enstratus.com/>
>>> To schedule a meeting with me: http://tungle.me/GeorgeReese
>>>
>>
> 
> 
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>