openstack team mailing list archive

[John Postlethwait <john.postlethwait@xxxxxxxxxx>]

So, in short, your entire purpose here is to troll everyone? Nice… : /

You obviously care. You keep responding… You have been asked numerous times what we can do to NOT "stick us yet against in this situation in the future."  Why is that such a difficult question to answer? Do you have an answer? Is your answer to "not change anything, ever"? That is not likely or reasonable – so what can be done here? Have you seen the other thread about what this cinder/nova-volume change entails?

There ARE people here willing to hear it out if you have an answer, or an actionable suggestion, or process, or SOMETHING besides "get your heads out of your asses," which is hardly actionable, as it is vague and hopefully not a literal belief/suggestion…

So, George: What do you want from us here? You likely have some legitimate pain-points, concerns, and reasons to be upset, but they are absolutely lost in your angry and personally offensive responses. Can you maybe elaborate on what pain THIS change would cause, and how we might assuage that?

John Postlethwait
Nebula, Inc.


On Thursday, July 12, 2012 at 12:47 PM, George Reese wrote:

> You are mistaking me for caring about the answer to this question.
>  
> This ship has sailed. We are faced with two shitty choices as a result of continued lack of concern by this community for compatibility.
>  
> History? I've been pounding my head against the OpenStack all for years on compatibility and we end up AGAIN in a situation like this where we have two shitty options.
>  
> I'm not offering an opinion or a third option because I just don't give a damn what option is picked since both will suck.
>  
> I'm trying to get everyone to get their heads out of their asses and not stick us yet against in this situation in the future.
>  
> You can discard my position if you want. I really don't give a damn. I just happen to work with a wider variety of OpenStack environments that most others on the list.  
>  
> But whatever.
>  
> -George
>  
> On Jul 12, 2012, at 2:40 PM, Jon Mittelhauser wrote:
> > George,  
> >  
> > I am relatively new to this mailing list so I assume that there is some history that is prompting the vehemence but I do not understand what you are trying to accomplish.  
> >  
> > Vish sent out two proposed ways for dealing with the migration.  Most of the early voting (including mine) has been for option #1 (happy to explain why if desired) but it isn't like the discussion is over.  If you believe that option #2 is better, please explain why you believe that.  If you believe that there is a 3rd option, please explain it to us.  
> >  
> > You are complaining without offering a counter proposal.  That is simply not effective and makes semi-neutral folks (like me) tend to discard your point of view (which I assume is not your objective).  
> >  
> > -Jon  
> >  
> > From: George Reese <george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)>
> > Date: Thursday, July 12, 2012 10:14 AM
> > To: Brian Waldon <brian.waldon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:brian.waldon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)>
> > Cc: "Openstack (openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)) (openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx))" <openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)>
> > Subject: Re: [Openstack] [nova] [cinder] Nova-volume vs. Cinder in Folsom
> >  
> > Well, I think overall OpenStack has done an absolute shit job of compatibility and I had hoped (and made a huge point of this at the OpenStack conference) Diablo -> Essex would be the end of this compatibility bullshit.  
> >  
> > But the attitudes in this thread and with respect to the whole Cinder question in general suggest to me that this cavalier attitude towards forward migration hasn't changed.  
> >  
> > So you can kiss my ass.  
> >  
> > -George  
> >  
> > On Jul 12, 2012, at 12:11 PM, Brian Waldon wrote:  
> > > We actually care a hell of a lot about compatibility. We also recognize there are times when we have to sacrifice compatibility so we can move forward at a reasonable pace.  
> > >  
> > > If you think we are handling anything the wrong way, we would love to hear your suggestions. If you just want to make comments like this, I would suggest you keep them to yourself.
> > >  
> > > Have a great day!  
> > > Brian Waldon
> > >  
> > > On Jul 12, 2012, at 9:32 AM, George Reese wrote:  
> > > > This community just doesn't give a rat's ass about compatibility, does it?  
> > > >  
> > > > -George  
> > > >  
> > > > On Jul 11, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Vishvananda Ishaya wrote:  
> > > > > Hello Everyone,
> > > > >  
> > > > > Now that the PPB has decided to promote Cinder to core for the Folsom
> > > > > release, we need to decide what happens to the existing Nova Volume
> > > > > code. As far as I can see it there are two basic strategies. I'm going
> > > > > to give an overview of each here:
> > > > >  
> > > > > Option 1 -- Remove Nova Volume
> > > > > ==============================
> > > > >  
> > > > > Process
> > > > > -------
> > > > > * Remove all nova-volume code from the nova project
> > > > > * Leave the existing nova-volume database upgrades and tables in
> > > > >   place for Folsom to allow for migration
> > > > > * Provide a simple script in cinder to copy data from the nova
> > > > >   database to the cinder database (The schema for the tables in
> > > > >   cinder are equivalent to the current nova tables)
> > > > > * Work with package maintainers to provide a package based upgrade
> > > > >   from nova-volume packages to cinder packages
> > > > > * Remove the db tables immediately after Folsom
> > > > >  
> > > > > Disadvantages
> > > > > -------------
> > > > > * Forces deployments to go through the process of migrating to cinder
> > > > >   if they want to use volumes in the Folsom release
> > > > >  
> > > > > Option 2 -- Deprecate Nova Volume
> > > > > =================================
> > > > >  
> > > > > Process
> > > > > -------
> > > > > * Mark the nova-volume code deprecated but leave it in the project
> > > > >   for the folsom release
> > > > > * Provide a migration path at folsom
> > > > > * Backport bugfixes to nova-volume throughout the G-cycle
> > > > > * Provide a second migration path at G
> > > > > * Package maintainers can decide when to migrate to cinder
> > > > >  
> > > > > Disadvantages
> > > > > -------------
> > > > > * Extra maintenance effort
> > > > > * More confusion about storage in openstack
> > > > > * More complicated upgrade paths need to be supported
> > > > >  
> > > > > Personally I think Option 1 is a much more manageable strategy because
> > > > > the volume code doesn't get a whole lot of attention. I want to keep
> > > > > things simple and clean with one deployment strategy. My opinion is that
> > > > > if we choose option 2 we will be sacrificing significant feature
> > > > > development in G in order to continue to maintain nova-volume for another
> > > > > release.
> > > > >  
> > > > > But we really need to know if this is going to cause major pain to existing
> > > > > deployments out there. If it causes a bad experience for deployers we
> > > > > need to take our medicine and go with option 2. Keep in mind that it
> > > > > shouldn't make any difference to end users whether cinder or nova-volume
> > > > > is being used. The current nova-client can use either one.
> > > > >  
> > > > > Vish
> > > > >  
> > > > >  
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> > > > > Post to     : openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
> > > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> > > > > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> > > >  
> > > > --
> > > > George Reese - Chief Technology Officer, enStratus
> > > > e: george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)    Skype: nspollution    t: @GeorgeReese    p: +1.207.956.0217
> > > > enStratus: Enterprise Cloud Management - @enStratus - http://www.enstratus.com (http://www.enstratus.com/)
> > > > To schedule a meeting with me: http://tungle.me/GeorgeReese  
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> > > > Post to     : openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
> > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> > > > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> > >  
> >  
> > --
> > George Reese - Chief Technology Officer, enStratus
> > e: george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)    Skype: nspollution    t: @GeorgeReese    p: +1.207.956.0217
> > enStratus: Enterprise Cloud Management - @enStratus - http://www.enstratus.com (http://www.enstratus.com/)
> > To schedule a meeting with me: http://tungle.me/GeorgeReese  
>  
> --
> George Reese - Chief Technology Officer, enStratus
> e: george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:george.reese@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)    Skype: nspollution    t: @GeorgeReese    p: +1.207.956.0217
> enStratus: Enterprise Cloud Management - @enStratus - http://www.enstratus.com (http://www.enstratus.com/)
> To schedule a meeting with me: http://tungle.me/GeorgeReese  
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to : openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>  
>