openstack team mailing list archive

[Matt Joyce <matt.joyce@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I personally want to see keystone be able to operate as a point of
authentication on instances.

I don't think everyone wants to see me succeed at that.

There is one major impediment to doing that well.  That's really providing
an NSS style lookup service for verifying users exist in keystone.  This
would be a necessity for openssh to allow passage of credentials to pam in
the event a user did not previously exist in /etc/passwd

So... on one hand I think there is tremendous value in keeping usernames
unique and domains identifiable as a default and a selectable from a list
of availables.  On the other hand unless we can build an NSS interface to
keystone the benefit I want isn't there.  =P

That being said.

With domains coming into existence can we operate with projects functioning
more like groups?  Can we not have to choose an operating project ( tenant
) when authenticating to APIs?  And just have the individual APIs query all
associated projects ( tenants ) and provide appropriate ACLs?  As we would
see in a posix group?  Maybe even map to posix groups on the back end.

Maybe that's just a pipe dream.

-Matt

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Joseph Heck <heckj@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> Got it. Right now usernames are defined as global across all domains. The
> side effect of this is that you only need a username and password to auth
> through keystone, with domain being something that could be "looked up". If
> we make usernames specific to a domain (I.e. globally unique), then we'll
> need to make a domain name or id mandatory for the simplest auth case as
> well.
>
> Some of the gents at HP have been advocating for the additional
> requirement of domain and segmented namespaces, so far I've been trying to
> maintain the "only need user and pass to auth" compatibility like the
> existing structure and V2 API.
>
> What do you think?
>
> -joe
>
> On Jul 18, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Tim Bell <Tim.Bell@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> ** **
>
> Joe,****
>
> ** **
>
> We find the domain approach very interesting for the private cloud
> scenario also. CERN has several large collaborations, each with multiple
> projects and independent quotas and roles.  Using a ‘default’ domain, where
> OS_DOMAINNAME is not specified would be fine for our general use case.****
>
> ** **
>
> My question is if the user id name space is per domain or per IaaS
> instance ? I suspect this has significant implications in areas such as
> Horizon login and API compatibility.****
>
> ** **
>
> Tim****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Joseph Heck [mailto:heckj@xxxxxx]
> *Sent:* 18 July 2012 20:17
> *To:* Tim Bell
> *Cc:* Adam Young; openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* Re: [Openstack] Identity API v3 - Why allow multi-tenant users?
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Perhaps a poor analogy with email - The domain is an arbitrary string
> that's intended for tenant isolation in large openstack environments. It's
> a place to hang policy so that you can delegate things like "password
> changing" (where the keystone backend supports it) to someone other than
> the keystone-uber-administrator.****
>
> ** **
>
> I expect almost any smaller/smallish deployment of OpenStack to likely use
> just a single domain, which is mostly ignored. It's really a mechanism in
> place for service-provider sized clouds, or where you want to be able to
> enforce hard boundaries in permissions between groups of tenants by
> customizing the policy.json files to respect domain_id information.****
>
> ** **
>
> I would expect that in any implementation, it would be independent of
> email domain names or such - At least that wouldn't be a way that I'd slice
> up permissions across projects.****
>
> ** **
>
> -joe****
>
> ** **
>
> On Jul 18, 2012, at 9:25 AM, Tim Bell wrote:****
>
> Thanks…. My worry is the username. Currently, I have****
>
>  ****
>
> OS_USERNAME=timbell****
>
>  ****
>
> Not****
>
>  ****
>
> OS_USERNAME=timbell@xxxxxxx****
>
>  ****
>
> Does that mean in the future that my****
>
>  ****
>
> OS_USERNAME=timbell****
>
> OS_DOMAINNAME=cern.ch****
>
>  ****
>
> I would like that I could still register as timbell in my domain even if
> someone else on the same OpenStack instance has a user id of timbell.****
>
>  ****
>
> Cross domain, federated identity as part of an authorization layer would
> be an interesting development (as we look to federated clouds and bursting)
> but I didn’t see something like that in v3.****
>
>  ****
>
> Tim****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern.ch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern.ch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Adam
> Young
> *Sent:* 18 July 2012 17:46
> *To:* openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* Re: [Openstack] Identity API v3 - Why allow multi-tenant users?
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> The idea of a Domain is that it is a single administrative entity, such as
> a company.
>
> When a person joins a company,  they get an email adddress.  THat address
> does not change regardless of the position they hold.
>
> Tenants are administrative groupings below that.  It is unfortunate that
> we used the name tenants for this, as it actually contradicts the usual
> meaning of the term.  We will be shortly switching back to using the term
> projects, and I think that is clearer.
>
>
> It certainly makes sense for a user to belong to one domain, but have
> access to a project controlled in another domain.  Here is a scenario.
> Joe's Sporting Goods and Local Bank are both companies that have a presense
> in a coud provider. Each has their own domain.  tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx  is
> going to set up a Point of Sale system for Joe.  So Joe creates a project
> called joes-point-of-sale and provides access to user tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
>
>
>
>
> On 07/18/2012 02:46 AM, Matt Joyce wrote:****
>
> I could see service users and security / operations teams having a need to
> span many domains.
>
> -Matt****
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Tim Bell <Tim.Bell@xxxxxxx> wrote:****
>
>  ****
>
> I thought that the v3 API supports domains as a group of tenants which
> would make the question rather different.****
>
>  ****
>
> Thus, I guess the question is****
>
>  ****
>
> A.      Should there be users in multiple tenants in a single domain ?****
>
> B.      Should there be users in multiple domains ?****
>
>  ****
>
> There are clear use cases for A (such as researchers working on multiple
> projects sharing project quotas)****
>
>  ****
>
> For B, it is less clear as if I am a domain administrator, I do not want
> to be told that I cannot allocate user X since another domain has already
> taken it. On the other hand, there is a clear architectural benefit from
> having the concept of identity (and authentication) split off from roles
> and projects.****
>
>  ****
>
> Tim****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern.ch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern.ch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *John
> Postlethwait
> *Sent:* 18 July 2012 07:42
> *To:* Rouault, Jason (Cloud Services)
> *Cc:* openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx****
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Openstack] Identity API v3 - Why allow multi-tenant users?
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> Forcing a user to remember different usernames and/or passwords for each
> project they are a part of, when it is possible they are part of N
> projects, really isn't an acceptable option in my opinion.****
>
>  ****
>
> I believe that regardless of the engineering complexities, the end users
> shouldn't have to feel pain in order to make engineering the solutions and
> features they interact with easier. Software is for end users (in their
> various forms) and as such we need to take that into account when we make
> decisions. While no functionality is lost per se, there is a major end-user
> impact, and that should be reason enough to implement it…****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> John Postlethwait****
>
> Nebula, Inc.****
>
> 206-999-4492****
>
>  ****
>
> On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Rouault, Jason (Cloud Services)
> wrote:****
>
> One benefit is the user does not need to have multiple sets of credentials
> to interact with multiple projects.****
>
>  ****
>
> Jason****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* openstack-bounces+jason.rouault=hp.com@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [
> mailto:openstack-bounces <openstack-bounces>+jason.rouault=
> hp.com@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Adam Young
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:55 AM
> *To:* openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* Re: [Openstack] Identity API v3 - Why allow multi-tenant users?
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> On 05/29/2012 01:18 PM, Caitlin Bestler wrote:****
>
> One of the major complication I see in the API is that users can be
> associated with multiple tenants.****
>
>  ****
>
> What is the benefit of this? What functionality would be lost if a human
> user merely had to use a different account with each tenant?****
>
>  ****
>
> There are numerous issues with multi-tenant users. For example, if a user
> is associated with multiple tenants, who resets the user’s password?****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
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> Did you ever get an answer?  This has been discussed in depth.****
>
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> ****
>
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> ** **
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