oship-dev team mailing list archive

[Justin Duperre <jduperre@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Team,

"Your arguments below are excellent. I can't see why not developing CDD as a
web application. But I can't see why being exclusive. Of course we are
thinking about almost 99,99% of the cases of knowledge modeling that will
take place, especially in the developed world, but there are some areas down
here that you have to travel 3 days in order to find the first electrical
outlet. OK, we know that healthcare professionals in those conditions won't
be the ones modeling knowledge, because that should ideally be always
performed under controlled situations, but what about a catastrophe or a new
unknown epidemic? I know, this is so unlikely that it shouldn't be taken
into account, but I'm here only asking us for not to make a certain
technological choice without covering all the scenarios that can be
devised."

Luciana, are you referring to a situation such as a traveling professional
encounters a new epidemic, has their laptop on battery power, and needs to
make a knowledge model (without having access to internet)? Or a catastrophe
occurs and there are limited electrical/internet access points?
If so, I see what you mean.

On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 7:41 PM, Luciana Tricai Cavalini
<lutricav@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:

>  Hi Justin,
>
> Again, here I am only addressing the issues I feel comfortble with:
>
> Justin Duperre escreveu:
>
>
> Luciana, Tim, and Roberto - Thank you for the informative replies - I have
> a very clear picture of the objectives now. With your approval I would like
> to document some of the information from this email chain to our project
> wiki.
>
> Of course you have my approval, but I can't talk on the behalf of Roberto
> and Tim, but knowing them I think I can guess their answer. ;-)
>
>
> So, the archetypes generated are another xsd file? since an archetype
> instance is like an XML file.
>
> I was thinking - Since most of the MDs would rather use something like
> www.phpform.org, what are your thoughts on having the CDD as a web based
> system?
>
> Your arguments below are excellent. I can't see why not developing CDD as a
> web application. But I can't see why being exclusive. Of course we are
> thinking about almost 99,99% of the cases of knowledge modeling that will
> take place, especially in the developed world, but there are some areas down
> here that you have to travel 3 days in order to find the first electrical
> outlet. OK, we know that healthcare professionals in those conditions won't
> be the ones modeling knowledge, because that should ideally be always
> performed under controlled situations, but what about a catastrophe or a new
> unknown epidemic? I know, this is so unlikely that it shouldn't be taken
> into account, but I'm here only asking us for not to make a certain
> technological choice without covering all the scenarios that can be devised.
>
> Cheers, Luciana.
>
>  Once becoming language agnostic, the next logical step forward would be to
> become OS agnostic as well (unless the goal of a language agnostic CDD tool
> is to make the tool OS agnostic - then a web based tool would solve both of
> these issues).
>
>  Also, any changes made to the tool would affect everyone at the same time
> (no re-downloading the program for updates or new versions). Scalable,
> reliable, and very available. It would basically be building a dedicated,
> schema-compliant "form" like Roberto said, using schemas stored on a back
> end database/server accessed through a web portal. The user could designate
> their domain which would filter the schema appropriately, and select an
> archetype or create a new one based on the selected schema - appropriate
> buttons would be on the web form. Therefore base schema could be updated and
> uploaded right to the server if any changes were needed (as listed by
> Luciana earlier). Other tasks can be performed based on requirements or
> other desired capabilities - this is just a rough outline.
>
> This is just an idea, but it really would cover everyone I believe,
> assuming they have web access.
>
> - Justin
>
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Tim Cook <timothywayne.cook@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> Hi Justin,
>>
>> I have copied this to the OSHIP-dev list so that others may benefit from
>> the conversation.
>>
>>  On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Roberto Siqueira <
>> siqueira@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all:
>>>  Let me try to address the "XMLSpy" part:
>>>
>>> > - why can't XML spy be used? (or similar xml editor) - there are
>>> > existing tools to build xml files from xsd files. Converting the xsd
>>> > files to Glade widget is basically converting xsd to xml - since glade
>>> > is an xml in its entirety.
>>>
>>>   You're perfectly right [in fact, that's precisely the reason why
>>> moving from ADL to XML was a big step forward: we don't need to
>>> "reinvent the wheel" any more]. There are even XSD-aware,
>>> context-sensitive editors like Oxygen
>>> ( http://www.oxygenxml.com/intelligent_xml_editing.html ) and Serna Free
>>> ( http://www.syntext.com/products/serna/features/xml-validation/ ), that
>>> are *very* user-friendly.
>>>  But you must remember that our main users are MDs (medicine doctors),
>>> not ITs (information technologists). On the long run, some of them will
>>> get well acquainted with the XML tools, but most of them will rather use
>>> something like http://www.phpform.org/ (by the way, the nicest "form
>>> buider" I've found so far!) instead. Indeed, that's is the main paradigm
>>> of this 2-tier project: to separate the medical knowledge "layer" from
>>> the IT one, so each specialist can concentrate only on his/her own
>>> domain.
>>>
>>
>>  I'm not certain that I was clear in past emails about the use of XML
>> Schemas as concept constraint definitions (CCDs), aka. archetypes in openEHR
>> and in template constraint definitions (TCDs), aka. Templates in openEHR.
>>
>> Both the CCD and TCD should be represented as an XML Schema NOT just an
>> XML file. Remeber that an 'archetype' does not contain data.  It is a
>> defining framework for data. The 'instance' of an archetype is similar to an
>> XML file.  These contain data and must validate against the
>> archetype/template or CCD/TCD respectively.
>>
>> So, for CCD and TCD schemas; they will 'include' the XML schemas of the
>> reference model and then define the clinical concept (CCD) or a group of
>> clinical concepts (TCD).
>>
>> Comments? / Suggestions?
>>
>>  Tim
>>
>
>
> --
> Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo sistema de antivírus e
> acredita-se estar livre de perigo.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~oship-dev <https://launchpad.net/%7Eoship-dev>
> Post to     : oship-dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~oship-dev <https://launchpad.net/%7Eoship-dev>
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
> --
> Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo sistema de antivírus e
> acredita-se estar livre de perigo.
>