registry team mailing list archive
-
registry team
-
Mailing list archive
-
Message #15181
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
Launchpad has imported 12 comments from the remote bug at
http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25220.
If you reply to an imported comment from within Launchpad, your comment
will be sent to the remote bug automatically. Read more about
Launchpad's inter-bugtracker facilities at
https://help.launchpad.net/InterBugTracking.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2009-11-21T19:29:51+00:00 Pyrates wrote:
When I copy (Ctrl + C, or right click and "Copy") text from somewhere
and after that close the program where it is, the clipboard gets empty.
Windows and Mac OS X behave this way, so should Xorg.
A comparison:
Ubuntu: Open Firefox. Copy the URL. Close Firefox. Open OOWriter : Can't paste url
Windows : Open Firefox. Copy the URL. Close Firefox. Open OOWriter : Url pasted !
See here for one long discussion about it:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/11334
And it has links to many duplicate bugs of people wanting it fixed. Now
I know this is mainly a design flaw and not a bug in code per say, but
it's been 16 years now. It's time has come to be redesigned the way
windows and mac os x do their clipboard.
Oh and this article is my favourite on it:
http://elliotth.blogspot.com/2008/08/desktop-linux-suckage-
clipboard.html
PS I did do a search using clipboard as my search word and nothing like
this has come up.
Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/comments/149
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2009-11-22T22:56:39+00:00 Alan-coopersmith-oracle wrote:
Bart Massey tried to get people interested in fixing the definitions
of cut/copy/paste handling in X a couple years ago, but couldn't get
enough people interested in helping solve the problem. Notes from his
talk at the X Developer's Conference:
http://www.x.org/wiki/XDC2007Notes#head-32e40ea8e2174e26306aeae8e2f7bb5d99f0ec03
http://www.x.org/wiki/CutAndPaste
Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/comments/151
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2009-11-23T12:06:04+00:00 Guilhem wrote:
I think it is really time Xorg people get on this. There would be
benefits for all linux users, just look at the launchpad bugtrackong
page... Allow me to repost a possible implementation :
a) 100K web page (with images) gets copied in firefox
b) the clipboard acquires right away all the TARGETs the source (firefox) supports (text/plain, text/html, image/jpg, ...)
c) the clipboard copies everything on ram or on disk
d) you can quit the source, everything is in the clipboard, with exactly the same TARGETs...
Maybe b) could be delayed until the source quits ? Is this feasible ??
OK if it is a large page/image, ask the user before mmap'ing 1Gb to ram
but for nowadays what does it cost to keep 100K of html, the same
content but for text, and another tabular data version for spreadsheet
etc.
Maybe restrict all this for a localhost X11 connection ?
Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/comments/152
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2010-01-30T14:13:59+00:00 robbert wrote:
Any news about the status of this bug? This bug has been bugging me
since the first week I started using Linux (in 2007). It's now 2010 and
the bug still annoys me everytime I'm using Linux. I even switched from
Linux to Mac OS X as my primary operating system, only because of the
bugs in X. Since 2007 I used Linux as my primary operating system, but a
few months ago I was so frustrated about the bugs in X that I went out
and bought a MacBook. From now on Mac OS X is my primary operating
system, untill the 16 year old bugs in X finally get fixed.
This bug has been annoying a lot of people for years. Look at all of
those bug reports and comments at Launchpad and other bug reporting
systems. People keep on complaining, because they loose their data when
they put something on the clipboard and then close the application.
Please, finally fix this bug.
Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/comments/165
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2010-02-23T10:01:32+00:00 FMaz wrote:
As this bug is confirmed to be so many years old, I think it might be a
good idea to raise the priority a little. Not highest, because it's not
a security problem, but I should be fixed way before many other "medium"
bugs.
Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/comments/202
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2010-02-23T10:15:45+00:00 skabbedabbeda wrote:
Of courxe this bug should be of the highest priority. This bug causes
data loss time after time, because people put something on the clipboard
and then close the source before they've pasted the contents of the
clipboard. A bug which causes data loss is the most critical kind of
bug.
Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/comments/203
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2010-02-23T17:26:17+00:00 Daniel Stone wrote:
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:15:46AM -0800, bugzilla-daemon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> Tralalalala <skabtrebge@xxxxxxxxxxx> changed:
>
> What |Removed |Added
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> CC| |skabtrebge@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Severity|normal |critical
> Priority|medium |highest
>
>
>
>
> --- Comment #5 from Tralalalala <skabtrebge@xxxxxxxxxxx> 2010-02-23 10:15:45 PST ---
> Of courxe this bug should be of the highest priority. This bug causes data loss
> time after time, because people put something on the clipboard and then close
> the source before they've pasted the contents of the clipboard. A bug which
> causes data loss is the most critical kind of bug.
This is a design flaw, rather than a bug: if you close the application
you've copied data from, then the data will be unavailable, as X -- by
design -- does not store the data. This seems like an entirely separate
bug.
Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/comments/207
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2010-02-23T19:26:28+00:00 FMaz wrote:
What do you mean by "separate" ?
Because as far as I've understood the debate, people from Ubuntu seem to say
that this task should be the responsability of X, not of the OS him-self.
Currently, some Apps are working as workarround, but they are not as
efficient as most people expect the clipboard to be. So that's why the bug
have been openned here.
This bug is really old on the Ubuntu launchpad, and I think you might found
even older repports on some other distros. It has only been openned here
recently because I took all those years to figure out what part of the
system was in fault: X.
You can name it a design flaw, but I think it really a major one for the end
users, specially since the all the repports are so old now.
Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/comments/211
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2010-02-23T21:27:48+00:00 Pyrates wrote:
I think in terms of "fixing" this flaw, we need to be very careful. We
need to design it out thoroughly so that we're not "fixing" it down the
road. I'd like to think of it like designing the specs for ssl.
It has to have following:
1. Cut/Copy without needing to keep the source open to then paste it
2. Disable global selection based copy because that just messes people up who try to delete some text by highlighting it first. Individual applications can still implement it if they wish.
3. To cut/copy and then paste has to be explicit using the keyboard shortcuts like ctrl+c, ctrl+x, and ctrl+v.
4. It can also be done using cut, copy, and paste in a menu like under edit like it is in Windows and OS X.
5. Keyboard shortcuts can be overridden to do something else if the application wants to. An example is putty in windows where it does have selection based copy and right clicking does a paste. The keyboard shortcuts are then overridden to have other functions or disabled entirely in putty and instead are used for terminal commands like ctrl+c forces the current program you're running in there to quit.
6. The api for cut, copy, and paste will by default use the standard keyboard shortcuts but allow the author of the application to disable that portion of it and allow them to specify another method to do the cut, copy, and paste. This will keep developers that are coming from windows and OS X happy since they won't have to do much to get it working.
Copying the data to the clipboard:
1. The clipboard in Xorg will specify a maximum size that can be used for the clipboard.
2. When data is sent to the clipboard, it will include what kind of data it is, and the program it came from. This is so that with certain kinds of data, there can be special instructions in dealing with it. For example copying a file doesn't require you copy the whole file into memory, but merely the location of where the file is and the name of the file. It can also include special instructions that the program has to remain open for the data to remain in the clipboard.
3. The clipboard will send an acknowledgment back it now has the data.
4. That data will have a unique id assigned to it.
5. If the data is under the size limit, it will send that acknowledgment as usual.
6. If the data is over the size limit, it will send an acknowledgment to the program that says the program has to confirm it wants the clipboard to store that much data. The program can do this automatically if it expects to be copying large chunks of data into the clipboard, or it can do it manually by asking the user to confirm it.
7. Once the clipboard has that confirmation from the program, it will attempt to store the data it is asked to.
8. If there is still a problem with storing that much data, it will send an acknowledgment with the reasons why it can't store that much data, such as not enough ram.
9. The program can also truncate the data if it is over the limit when copying it to the clipboard as well.
Copying data from the clipboard back into the same program or another
program:
1. Using the api for pasting the data, the clipboard will automatically empty itself if the data had used the cut method instead of copy method to be copied into the clipboard.
2. If the data had been copied to the clipboard instead of using cut, then it will remain in the clipboard after being pasted. The exception being is if its a certain type that specifies the program that the data came from has to remain open in order to paste it.
3. When the api for pasting the data is called, it will automatically know the unique id that was assigned to that data without the programmer having to specify it.
4. The clipboard will keep track of data copied into it and all management associated with it. It will handle only one piece of data at a time. This can be expanded at a later time if needed to support multiple pieces of data into the clipboard.
5. If a program has copied a large amount of data into the clipboard that was over the initial limit allowed and acknowledged it wanted that data copied, upon the exit of that program, it is responsible for checking if it still has data in the clipboard. The clipboard because it kept the name of the program that copied the data into it, the api for this check will not require the author of the program to pass that data, it will automatically be passed while calling the api. The clipboard when this check is done will return the data type and the size of it. If there is data that exists in the clipboard that was over the limit allowed, the program will then ask the user if they want to remove it from the clipboard or keep it. The program can also instead automatically remove this data so it doesn't have to ask every time should the above conditions be true. This check that is done will only be for data that was over the limit, not for any data that was under the limit.
Program example with putty:
1. Changes the clipboard keyboard shortcuts so they are used for linux type terminal commands.
2. Copy is done via doing a highlight of selection of text.
3. Paste is done via doing a right click inside the putty window.
4. Putty does not use cut at all.
Program example with adobe audition:
1. Does cut, copy and paste as normal.
2. When exiting, it checks if there is data it copied to the clipboard that was over the limit allowed.
3. If there is, it asks the user if they want to empty the clipboard or not with yes being highlighted by default.
If you want to create a spec based on the above, feel free to. It
should be on a wiki so that we can all collaborate on it.
Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/comments/212
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2010-02-24T00:24:03+00:00 X-po8 wrote:
LOL.
This is a great bug. I too every so often experience the pain that
comes with closing an app before I've had a chance to paste from it.
I love the comments, especially the linked rant.
A few things to note, though:
* If you run a clipboard manager such as
http://parcellite.sourceforge.net/ it will save the clipboard when it
sees a copy act. In fact, it will save a complete history of all copy
acts; something that AFAIK neither Mac or Windows does for you these
days. (My original 128K Mac actually had an app that would page back
through previously-clipped stuff, but I haven't spotted it in a while.
Maybe it's still around.) Thus, no changes to applications or X are
needed to remedy this particular design issue. Just get a tool.
* Once you've fixed this little problem, X cut-and-paste will still
totally suck. Almost no interoperability between apps for anything
other than unformatted text, almost no support for most media types,
complete lack of uniformity in user interface beyond the most basic
functions, etc, etc.
* Even specifying cut-and-paste behavior that makes even 80% of X
users happy is really, really hard. I think so, anyhow, because I and a
whole classroom full of smart people once burned 2.5 months working on
it without winning. (Of course, maybe I and they are just fail.) Once
you've specified it, you face the question of how to make every X app,
toolkit etc in existence conformant.
Let me be clear. I would *love* to see the major GUI toolkit builders
get together and iron out a proper X cut-and-paste specification, then
jointly push it into their toolkits and UI guidelines. I would be happy
to help how I could with such a project. I think it's probably
feasible, albeit on a several-years' timescale. It took us 10 years to
get XCB mainstreamed. It's still not done. IMHO mainstreaming XCB was
much easier than mainstreaming new cut-and-paste will be.
However, filing a bug against X cut-and-paste at freedesktop.org and
insisting that it be raised to highest priority is just comical. Fixing
X doesn't work that way. Even if many Ubuntu Launchpad folks want it
to. If you want X cut-and-paste issues fixed, pitch in and help. The
specification in the previous comment isn't anywhere near done,
obviously, but it at least shows the right attitude.
I want to close this bug, but none of the standard resolutions work for
me. I wish there was a WTF resolution. In the meantime, I'll just
leave it open, with an appropriate priority and severity.
Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/comments/214
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2010-02-24T04:09:00+00:00 FMaz wrote:
Ok, but, considering that I (and most of us) doesn't know how to program and
how C works, how can I help ?
Because if you wait that someone learn C, learn X, then make a patch, we
will never see this problem solved, never.
Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/comments/215
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 2010-02-24T08:50:56+00:00 Pyrates wrote:
Which is why you need to first start designing how it should work before
any programmer touches it. Once that specification is done, then the
development work can begin. You cannot just go in and start programming
without doing planning. It's like building a house without blueprints.
I know this is not an easy route, but it has to be done. Yes all X
applications will have to conform to this once the initial work is done.
So will all tool kits. That's a fact and shouldn't stop us from working
on this. But to make that easier, drop support for tool kits that are
considered legacy. Then you don't have to worry about them. Just get
the initial X code base working with it.
But maybe X itself should be stripped down. No X applications, etc.
Just the ability to create DE's that run on top of X while using X's
ability to do the gui side of things. I can see why google when
creating android chose to develop something that replaces X completely.
Bart Massey, may I ask what stopped your class from working on this
after 2 and a half months? What was the issue that stopped development?
It took 10 years to get XCB mainstream? You need to come up with better
names cuz I had to google it to find out what it was, but anyways.
Isn't there deadlines/milestones in terms of getting features in there?
If a feature can't be finished in time, it is dropped and set to be put
in for the next revision. Or does every single feature need to be put
in there?
Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/comments/216
** Changed in: xorg-server
Importance: Unknown => High
--
MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Registry
Administrators, which is the registrant for AbiWord.
